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Old 08-03-2009, 07:22 AM   #76
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Shower leaking need to re tile


If I walked into that bathroom at an inspection, my first thought would be:

"Uh oh... likely going to be a leaker..." - I'm going to put a donunt stopper over the drain, aim the shower head at the bench, and run the shower for 20-30 minutes while carefully checking the ceiling below every five minutes or so.

Frequently I'm going to find water dripping out of a drywall seam or running out of the recessed light - happened twice last week.

And while of course it doesn't have to be that way if the showers is constructed properly, the average such installation I encounter often does leak when thoroughly tested.

Since I don't installer or repair repair showers, just inspect them, I don't have any vested interest in a particular system or solution, and based on my experience two things stand out about the job you are tackling:

1) Benches often leak. While there is no inherent reason why they can't be done right, at least here in Chicago even many experienced tile installers seem to have a hard time doing it right.

There two ways to do custom benches: you can attempt to create a watertight seal between the membrane covering the bench and the rest of liner, or you can build a bench inside the liner, for example:





http://johnbridge.com/shower_seats.htm

Considering the large number of problems I see with benches, the second approach makes a lot of sense to me, especially if you are using a conventional liner material in a conventional built-up pan system.

2) For DIY installers, preformed solid (monolithic) pans are inherently more likely to end up waterproof than built-up pans.

If you don't want to use (or can't use) a monolithic pan, in my experience the Kerdi-Schluter approach is more likely to produce a durably watertight DYI shower than conventional scratch built methods, especially in showers with benches, irregular contours and and/or multiple high volume shower heads.

As someone notes above you have the option of just running Kerdi right up to the ceiling, were that my shower that's how I would do it, with liquid waterproofing above a liner that runs well above that bench as a close second choice.

YMMV.

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Last edited by Michael Thomas; 08-03-2009 at 07:32 AM.
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Old 08-03-2009, 08:44 PM   #77
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Shower leaking need to re tile


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Originally Posted by Bud Cline View Post
You'll be fine with the bench in that area, 19" is a nominal number. The 1/4" Durock should work fine under those circumstances just be sure to bed it in thinset when you install it. THEN, waterproof it a-plenty with a liquid waterproofing. Home Depot sells Redgard, Others have Mapei HPG, Laticrete 9235 and Laticrete Floor and Wall Waterproofing, all are brushable. There are several others.

Actually the liquid waterproofing does cost less in the long run based on my experience. Their "spread-rates" listed on the labels are much less than what the product usually does. I also mesh tape my junctures and thinset them to fill the cracks and voids, then add the waterproofing after everything is dry. More than one coat is typically necessary.
backer board, thin set bed, liquid waterproof, then kerdi???



Got some mesh tape for the backer board plan to tape and mortar all seems.
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Old 08-03-2009, 08:54 PM   #78
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Shower leaking need to re tile


Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Thomas View Post
If I walked into that bathroom at an inspection, my first thought would be:

"Uh oh... likely going to be a leaker..." - I'm going to put a donunt stopper over the drain, aim the shower head at the bench, and run the shower for 20-30 minutes while carefully checking the ceiling below every five minutes or so.

Frequently I'm going to find water dripping out of a drywall seam or running out of the recessed light - happened twice last week.

And while of course it doesn't have to be that way if the showers is constructed properly, the average such installation I encounter often does leak when thoroughly tested.

Since I don't installer or repair repair showers, just inspect them, I don't have any vested interest in a particular system or solution, and based on my experience two things stand out about the job you are tackling:

1) Benches often leak. While there is no inherent reason why they can't be done right, at least here in Chicago even many experienced tile installers seem to have a hard time doing it right.

There two ways to do custom benches: you can attempt to create a watertight seal between the membrane covering the bench and the rest of liner, or you can build a bench inside the liner, for example:





http://johnbridge.com/shower_seats.htm

Considering the large number of problems I see with benches, the second approach makes a lot of sense to me, especially if you are using a conventional liner material in a conventional built-up pan system.

2) For DIY installers, preformed solid (monolithic) pans are inherently more likely to end up waterproof than built-up pans.

If you don't want to use (or can't use) a monolithic pan, in my experience the Kerdi-Schluter approach is more likely to produce a durably watertight DYI shower than conventional scratch built methods, especially in showers with benches, irregular contours and and/or multiple high volume shower heads.

As someone notes above you have the option of just running Kerdi right up to the ceiling, were that my shower that's how I would do it, with liquid waterproofing above a liner that runs well above that bench as a close second choice.

YMMV.

-----------
Home Inspection: "A business with illogically high liability, slim profit margins and limited economies of scale. An incredibly diverse, multi-disciplined consulting service, delivered under difficult in-field circumstances, before a hostile audience in an impossibly short time frame, requiring the production of an extraordinarily detailed technical report, almost instantly, without benefit of research facilities or resources." - Alan Carson
I agree, if doing a liner that seems to be a 100% leak proof for the bench!

Considering I plan to keep my house unless I can no longer afford. I am going to redo whole shower. There is no waterproofing on the walls at all now!

I may re consider my current bench. Will continue to do some research.

Thanks for the input
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Old 08-03-2009, 10:54 PM   #79
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Shower leaking need to re tile


Quote:
backer board, thin set bed, liquid waterproof, then kerdi???
OK, hold on, this is getting out of hand maybe.

You could build the bench from plywood on a level floor. I wouldn't be building a bench that size out of plywood but hey that's just me, some guys do it all the time.

Cover the bench with cement board.

Mesh tape all the vertical junctures on the walls and the horizontal bench junctures and fill the tape with thinset.

Then cast the floor slope from walls to drain and from bench to drain. Maintain the same elevation around the perimeter.

Install the KERDI on the slope and up the walls and bench. Go up 3-4 inches above the top of the dam.



Use liquid waterproofing to waterproof the hell out of everything from the top of the KERDI (3" up the walls) up to and including the ceiling. This will require more than one application of liquid waterproofing, watch for pin holes and fill them abundantly. Include the top seam of the KERDI and waterproof it to the walls also.

This is not that complicated.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Thomas
If I walked into that bathroom at an inspection, my first thought would be:

"Uh oh... likely going to be a leaker..."
Bullchit!

Let's keep goin' I'll be the inspector on this one.
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Old 08-04-2009, 06:00 AM   #80
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Shower leaking need to re tile


backer board on bench only, it's pretty sturdy... used about 16' of 2x4's and a couple feet of 2x6....

YOu says not that complicated.... first time for me... but you have explained fully seems pretty easy now will see when im done

Last edited by Ineedhelp2009; 08-04-2009 at 09:53 AM.
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Old 08-04-2009, 09:42 PM   #81
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Shower leaking need to re tile


Kerdi came today. That stuff is waterproof for sure.... dries really quick.......Found some 2x2 mosaic gold nugget on sale today $2.30 a sheet
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Old 08-05-2009, 12:16 PM   #82
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Found some 2x2 mosaic gold nugget on sale today $2.30 a sheet
Good deal! I knew you could do it.

Quote:
Kerdi came today. That stuff is waterproof for sure.... dries really quick.......
Just remember if you have seams they must lap 2" everywhere. Just for fun while you have the liquid waterproofing going paint those KERDI seams also. Not a requirement but none-the-less a piece of mind.
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Old 08-05-2009, 07:59 PM   #83
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Shower leaking need to re tile


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Good deal! I knew you could do it.


Just remember if you have seams they must lap 2" everywhere. Just for fun while you have the liquid waterproofing going paint those KERDI seams also. Not a requirement but none-the-less a piece of mind.
Sounds like a plan... ever used customerblend from HD As unmodified? only $5 almost seems to cheap
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Old 08-05-2009, 09:20 PM   #84
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Ever used customerblend from HD As unmodified? only $5 almost seems to cheap
This past spring the price began to rise and Customblend is now selling for $8 at our local HD. All thinsets are rising locally 20 to 60%.

To answer your question...yes I use it for cement board type installations. Be warned tho that Customblend is a very basic and low-grade unmodified thinset.
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Old 08-05-2009, 09:28 PM   #85
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Shower leaking need to re tile


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This past spring the price began to rise and Customblend is now selling for $8 at our local HD. All thinsets are rising locally 20 to 60%.

To answer your question...yes I use it for cement board type installations. Be warned tho that Customblend is a very basic and low-grade unmodified thinset.
sounds good
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Old 08-15-2009, 05:44 PM   #86
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Shower leaking need to re tile


Project has been on hold... football and kindergarden


man, takes forever to get the tile and harbibacker board off wall.

What kind of mortar should i use against the glass blocks and wall?
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Old 08-15-2009, 05:51 PM   #87
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What kind of mortar should i use against the glass blocks and wall?
Uh-well-um-uh....six pages of posts and now you throw in this curve ball? I ain't going back to read all that crap again. Enlighten me about this glass block, means nothing to me right now.

And...against the wall???
Huh?
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Old 08-15-2009, 06:43 PM   #88
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Shower leaking need to re tile


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Uh-well-um-uh....six pages of posts and now you throw in this curve ball? I ain't going back to read all that crap again. Enlighten me about this glass block, means nothing to me right now.

And...against the wall???
Huh?

Gotcha

Tore alot of mortar out between blocks and wall. Can I just use what ever thin set I use with the kerdi? Just another general question to throw in while posting

pictures make things easier.... check out the receptacles





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Old 08-15-2009, 07:01 PM   #89
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I don't see what thinset has to do with any of those glass blocks.
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Old 08-15-2009, 07:03 PM   #90
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Quote:
check out the receptacles
check out the receptacles
check out the receptacles
Now you got me again. What receptacles?

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