Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Flooring

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-04-2010, 07:35 AM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 107
Share |
Default

Serious problem with haze on new ceramic tile and over top of grout


Builder for an addition included ceramic tile floor in quote. 16 inch porcelains were installed Wednesday by one of his men. Grouted Thursday and almost immediately a milky haze developed. He continued to wipe down with clear water but to no avail. Friday he purchased and applied a product (with acidic qualities) the tile supplier recommended for this problem. Now haze is so severe grout lines are nearly indiscernible from tiles. Today I washed a sample area using a mildly abrasive cloth and a general purpose cleaner. Rinsed and wiped dry. Looked great for 15 minutes than the haze reappeared. Any suggestions? Have had a good relationship with the contractor up to this point. Just need some guidance on what's possible given this situation so I can discuss it intelligently with him next week. Also, if there's anything I can do on my own or whether this problem will get better with time. Thanks

Mi Feller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2010, 10:51 AM   #2
Tileguy
 
JazMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Troy, Michigan
Posts: 3,950
Default

Serious problem with haze on new ceramic tile and over top of grout


Hi Feller,

What brand grout? Did you see the mixed consistency? How long after applying was the wash started? What method of installation for the tile, what type of base? Over a slab, mud job or cement backer etc.

Jaz

__________________
Tile 4 You LLC Troy, MI

DITRA Installs - KERDI Watertight-Mold-Free Showers. I have NEVER made a mistake, I thought I did ONCE, but, I was WRONG! A+ BBB rating - est. 1987 - over 50 yrs. exp.
JazMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2010, 11:36 AM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 107
Default

Serious problem with haze on new ceramic tile and over top of grout


TEC Polymer Enhanced Portland Cement grout. Consistency looked a bit watery, maybe like a milk shake. I believe the wash was started quite soon but wasn't around at the time. Even with grouting 124 square feet and the multiple washes he was on site less than 4 hours. They put a cement down on particle board floor than topped it with a perforated plastic like material. Supposed to be better than rock board. The tile being the non-shiny variety could probably pass mustard even with the glaze, but the medium brown grout has turned white to light gray. Still working on the test section. Don't want to do anything too drastic. Used some white vinegar last time, scrubbed and rinsed; and starting to look better.
Mi Feller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2010, 11:44 AM   #4
Stuck in the 70's
 
Blondesense's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: south central Missouri
Posts: 2,100
Default

Serious problem with haze on new ceramic tile and over top of grout


If you get the tiles wet, the haze may seem to disappear only to come back once it dries.

Quote:
Now haze is so severe grout lines are nearly indiscernible from tiles.
Does it seem to be getting worse? If so, be careful not to do anything that would pull any more grout out of the lines.


With porcelain tiles you might try white vinegar if you have it on hand.
I would try it on one or two of the tiles, avoiding the grout lines and see what happens.

Edited to add: Oops, I'm a slow typist, I see you already tried vinegar!

Last edited by Blondesense; 09-04-2010 at 11:48 AM.
Blondesense is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2010, 12:08 PM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 107
Default

Serious problem with haze on new ceramic tile and over top of grout


Grout darkened slightly after several washes. Tiles no change and possibly a little more glazed. As you say, both look fine when wet and for 15 minutes of so after. Heard the 3M green pad is good for cleaning these things. Is 2 days after grouting too soon to try to clean up the grout joints? Installer used an acid based cleaner one day after grouting. Just guessing some of the glaze on the tiles was washed into the grout lines. Don't recall them being so chalky looking before the acid wash. Appreciate the ideas.
Mi Feller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2010, 01:40 PM   #6
Stuck in the 70's
 
Blondesense's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: south central Missouri
Posts: 2,100
Default

Serious problem with haze on new ceramic tile and over top of grout


Quote:
Now haze is so severe grout lines are nearly indiscernible from tiles.
Your initial post made it sound like the haze problem was getting worse. If this is the case, it makes me think there is a major problem with the grout setting up properly, and by trying to clean it, you are pulling more out and smearing it across the tiles.

Is the grout solid? Grout is a cement type product and by now should have turned to cement. If it is soft or crumbly in any way, it will need to be removed and replaced.

__________________________

Quote:
Heard the 3M green pad is good for cleaning these things.
Yes, they can help to remove the haze off of porcelain tile.

Quote:
Tiles no change and possibly a little more glazed.
I just want to make sure we are on the same page.
The tiles are looking better or worse?

Quote:
Is 2 days after grouting too soon to try to clean up the grout joints?
Timelines differ, but most tilers start the final clean-up of the grout within an hour or so, definitely the same day. It is a timing issue. You clean too soon, you pull the soft grout out of the lines. You clean too late and it gets hard and you have problems with haze.
Some say you can remove a light haze the following day. Some not.
After two days, it is a done deal. The grout should be rock solid.



Quote:
Just guessing some of the glaze on the tiles was washed into the grout lines. Don't recall them being so chalky looking before the acid wash.
Using too much water too soon to clean the grout before it has set can lead to chalking or splotchy colored grout and other problems. It is also possible using different cleaning products and/or sealers may also contribute to this.
Wet grout, cleaned too early, can get smeared across the tile, but the glaze on the tile itself, aint' goin nowhere!
Blondesense is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2010, 07:45 PM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 107
Default

Serious problem with haze on new ceramic tile and over top of grout


Grout is firm and appears well set. Not coming loose. Installer cleaned tiles with an acidic product yesterday. Some of the tiles cleaned up and some did not creating an uneven splotchy look. The white appearance on the grout lines did not seem to appear until after the acid wash. With the glazed tiles and white on the grout lines there is little of the contrast that usually makes tiles so appealing. My efforts today seemed to reduce the chalk like appearance on the grout lines, but not the glazed look on the tiles themselves. Reluctant to do anything further until I understand what's going on better.
Mi Feller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2010, 09:45 PM   #8
Tileguy
 
JazMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Troy, Michigan
Posts: 3,950
Default

Serious problem with haze on new ceramic tile and over top of grout


I'm interested in learning more about how the floor was installed and with what.

First of all, are you sure the subfloor is particle board and not OSB?

By "cement" do you mean a thick bed of cement which is about 3/4-1 inch thick, or a thin layer applied with a notched trowel as an adhesive?

If it was a bagged material that he mixed on the job, do you know the specific brand and name and what was it mixed with.

This "perforated plastic", what brand is it? What color, how thick, smooth, textured, waffled diamond shape surface? What specific adhesive was used to bond the tiles to this membrane? How long did the tiles set before they were grouted?

What part of Michigan, did the installer seem to have lots of experience, is he licensed? Where did the materials come from? The answers to these questions may be very relevant

Back to the grout problem.

If mixed too wet, washed too soon, too much water used. You're gonna have this problem. It may be "latex leaching". The latex comes from the grout, the polymers. It also sounds like he mixed "soup" instead of grout, which should be more like mashed potatoes or peanut butter.

You said the grout was washed with an acidic cleaner? How soon after grouting and tell us the specific name of the product.

Jaz
__________________
Tile 4 You LLC Troy, MI

DITRA Installs - KERDI Watertight-Mold-Free Showers. I have NEVER made a mistake, I thought I did ONCE, but, I was WRONG! A+ BBB rating - est. 1987 - over 50 yrs. exp.
JazMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2010, 11:42 AM   #9
Doer of Many Things
 
poppameth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Staunton, VA
Posts: 1,159
Default

Serious problem with haze on new ceramic tile and over top of grout


TEC had some issues with grout not too long ago. There were bad batches floating around that had similar problems to this. Still it was mainly the grout line itself that was discoloring, not the tile. Exactly what type of tile was this? It almost sounds like it was something that might have needed a grout release before grouting.
poppameth is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2010, 02:35 PM   #10
Tileguy
 
Bud Cline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,578
Default

Serious problem with haze on new ceramic tile and over top of grout


Before any more time is spent on speculation...tell us:

1.) EXACTLY what tile was used, saying it is twelve inch tile doesn't mean a thing to anyone. We need brand names.

2.) EXACTLY which acid was used to clean the surface the first time.

Bud Cline is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.