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Old 12-03-2012, 04:55 PM   #1
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Retiling patio over garage (over concrete)


I recently purchased a house built in the late 80's that has a walk-out patio (approx 7'x22') over part of the garage. Unfortunately, the tiled floor was sloped towards the house so there is some water damage to the plywood where the floor meets the wall.

The old cracked and deteriorated ceramic tile was recently removed (didn't take much effort) to expose about 4" of concrete. Under the slightly pitted and uneven concrete is some sort of rubber-based membrane for water proofing. It is easy to see that the water penetrated only at the floor-wall corner where the membrane was not wrapped onto the wall and under the door threshold properly. I would like to retile with large slate tiles but really want to avoid demoing and removing the tons of existing concrete. There is also electrical conduit for lights embedded in the concrete.

My first issue is how to achieve the proper slope (1/4" per foot) away from the wall of the house. Should it be done with an additional layer of concrete or can I somehow use a backer board like Durock using thinset with the proper slope over the existing concrete? The latter would be a lot easier but I don't know how it will hold up.

The second issue is where a second water-proof membrane (probably PVC-based such as DuraDek or RedGard applied membrane) should be applied? Should it go immediately over the existing concrete or over the properly sloped surface (concrete or backer board)?

Thanks for any suggestions! ++Rob


Last edited by FooManChooZE; 12-03-2012 at 05:29 PM. Reason: Clarification
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Old 12-03-2012, 05:07 PM   #2
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Retiling patio over garage (over concrete)


Some very poor plans your suggesting.
Got a picture.
There is no thin layer of concrete that not going to crack.
Any siding, sheathing should have been at least 6" above any slab, deck, stoop.
Any deck, patio within 4" of a doors threshold will also water to get in.

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Old 12-03-2012, 05:23 PM   #3
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Retiling patio over garage (over concrete)


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Originally Posted by joecaption View Post
Some very poor plans your suggesting.
Got a picture.
There is no thin layer of concrete that not going to crack.
Any siding, sheathing should have been at least 6" above any slab, deck, stoop.
Any deck, patio within 4" of a doors threshold will also water to get in.
It was a poor plan and implementation to begin with. I'm actually surprised that the water damage wasn't much, much worse since it's been that way for over 25 years. Will try to get a picture but I'm not at the house for some days.

The sheathing and stucco will be redone at a future time and the threshold and door will be raised to accommodate the proper slope (the target is to get the top of the threshold about 3" above the patio floor level). The original tile level was barely an inch or so below.

Any advise given the circumstances?
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Old 12-03-2012, 07:05 PM   #4
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Retiling patio over garage (over concrete)


Hard to suggest anything without that picture.
SO far it sounds like the slab needs to be removed.
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Old 12-03-2012, 07:09 PM   #5
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Retiling patio over garage (over concrete)


While you wait----google the following---

Schluter---Latacrete---Noble---these are three makers of tiling products---waterproofing--membranes---isolation membranes---

What ever you do the waterproofing should be flashed at least 6 inches up the wall and extend below the facia if that applies to your installation---

This is not my area of expertise---My outside tiling has been limited to slab on grade----Mike----
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:40 AM   #6
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Retiling patio over garage (over concrete)


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Originally Posted by joecaption View Post
Hard to suggest anything without that picture.
SO far it sounds like the slab needs to be removed.
Found this picture that was taken before the tile was removed to expose the concrete slab. It's hard to tell the slope is mostly going towards the house. Also, the tile level is less than an inch below the inside floor level.

Any suggestions anyone?
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Retiling patio over garage (over concrete)-patio1.jpg  

Last edited by FooManChooZE; 12-06-2012 at 09:32 AM.
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:53 AM   #7
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Retiling patio over garage (over concrete)


Quote:
Originally Posted by oh'mike View Post
While you wait----google the following---

Schluter---Latacrete---Noble---these are three makers of tiling products---waterproofing--membranes---isolation membranes---

What ever you do the waterproofing should be flashed at least 6 inches up the wall and extend below the facia if that applies to your installation---

This is not my area of expertise---My outside tiling has been limited to slab on grade----Mike----
Thanks -- will check these products out and run some general searches.
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Old 12-07-2012, 05:33 PM   #8
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Retiling patio over garage (over concrete)


To summarize the issues:

1) The starting point is 4" of concrete on the patio over living space (err, well a garage). It does not have the proper slope to direct water to the outside edges. The only water leaks are along the wall/floor intersection. The existing water damage can be easily repaired from underneath and is not that bad given the house was built in 1987.
2) The previous waterproof membrane (under the concrete) fails along the wall/floor intersection so I need to add an additional membrane.
3) Given 1 and 2, does the new membrane (PVC-based) go immediately over the existing concrete or over the new cement that is topped over it to create the proper slope? If so, is it adhered somehow?
4) To create the slope (1/4"), would it be beneficial to use Durock or would it be better to just create it with the cement topping mixture?

Thanks for any all suggestions! ++Rob
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Old 12-07-2012, 05:53 PM   #9
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Retiling patio over garage (over concrete)


Not going to like to hear it but I for one can not seeing anything you trying a do work out long term.
You have the prefect storm going on for ways not to build a deck.
In order to raise the level to get some run off your going to add to the already existing issues.
There is no material I know of that can be used to fill from that high to that low.
New codes would have called for that deck to be at least 4" in some areas it's even 6" below the sheathing, and the doorway.
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Old 12-07-2012, 06:36 PM   #10
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Retiling patio over garage (over concrete)


Quote:
Originally Posted by joecaption View Post
Not going to like to hear it but I for one can not seeing anything you trying a do work out long term.
You have the prefect storm going on for ways not to build a deck.
In order to raise the level to get some run off your going to add to the already existing issues.
There is no material I know of that can be used to fill from that high to that low.
New codes would have called for that deck to be at least 4" in some areas it's even 6" below the sheathing, and the doorway.
I do have the option of raising the interior floor level by up to 3". This, along with raising the door and threshold (up to 2 1/2" above the interior floor level) should give plenty of clearance to wrap the PVC membrane up against the wall.

Assuming this, do you have any suggestions for my questions above?

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