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Old 07-23-2010, 11:42 PM   #16
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pulled up the linoleum does it have asbestos?


asbestos is way over rated! I have ripped out old vinyl floors that contain asbestos quite a few times! you just make sure you dont make dust and wear a mask just for good measure.

If it is sheet vinyl then it will have a 1/4 inch plywood underneath of that. but if your not concerned about your new floor coming up to high, then just go over top of all of it with 1/2 inch exterior grade plywood , you can lay tile right over that. just make sure you screw every 4 inches square and use a high quality thinset. you get what you pay for in the thinset world. if you pull off a register vent you can see all the layers that you have on your floor

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Old 07-24-2010, 10:12 AM   #17
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pulled up the linoleum does it have asbestos?


Might be wrong, but I think the goverment lost the lawsuit against the companies using asbestos in 1978.
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Old 05-16-2013, 06:08 AM   #18
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pulled up the linoleum does it have asbestos?


Asbestos should not be taken lightly. In medical school we were taught a fair amount about it by occupational medicine experts, oncologists and respirologists. The main issue is the development of lung fibrosis (restricted lung movement) and mesothelioma (essentially a terminal/uncurable lung cancer at diagnosis)

The main thing is that no level of exposure is safe and much of the risk depends on specific type of asbestos and nature of exposure. Some case reports describe a mesothelioma occurring after only a few minutes of exposure. Certainly some patients are exposed their whole lives and don't develop the cancer, likely just restrictive lung disease that may or may not be symptomatic.

People in this thread are citing examples of people they know who have been fine after prolonged exposure. This is anecdotal evidence and should not be applied to a larger population (ie. internet chat site visitors). The science on asbestos risk is based on rigorous applied epidemiological evidence, and the overall risk is well characterized. Suggesting that asbestos is not a big deal is irresponsible. Get a professional to deal with your asbestos and choose them wisely so they don't contaminate your home.
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Old 05-16-2013, 07:13 AM   #19
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pulled up the linoleum does it have asbestos?


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Originally Posted by gunt0017 View Post
Asbestos should not be taken lightly. In medical school we were taught a fair amount about it by occupational medicine experts, oncologists and respirologists. The main issue is the development of lung fibrosis (restricted lung movement) and mesothelioma (essentially a terminal/uncurable lung cancer at diagnosis)

The main thing is that no level of exposure is safe and much of the risk depends on specific type of asbestos and nature of exposure. Some case reports describe a mesothelioma occurring after only a few minutes of exposure. Certainly some patients are exposed their whole lives and don't develop the cancer, likely just restrictive lung disease that may or may not be symptomatic.

People in this thread are citing examples of people they know who have been fine after prolonged exposure. This is anecdotal evidence and should not be applied to a larger population (ie. internet chat site visitors). The science on asbestos risk is based on rigorous applied epidemiological evidence, and the overall risk is well characterized. Suggesting that asbestos is not a big deal is irresponsible. Get a professional to deal with your asbestos and choose them wisely so they don't contaminate your home.
Blah, blah, blah.
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Old 05-17-2013, 04:01 PM   #20
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pulled up the linoleum does it have asbestos?


I would assume that after five years the OP has moved on to another project.
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Old 05-17-2013, 07:15 PM   #21
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pulled up the linoleum does it have asbestos?


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Sorry, but that's not true. It can take a very short exposure to asbestos to cause serious problems. Besides someone will be living in the confined house for years. It's a very very serious mistake to rip up an asbestos containing floor without taking proper abatement procedures. The fibers cannot be expelled from the lungs and tearing up/delaminating a floor can put the fibers into the air. The OP needs to get testing done on the floor. If the testing is positive they should test the whole house (especially ductwork and carpeting) to see if the entire house is now contaminated.

It is irresponsible to imply that DIYers should ignore asbestos precautions and imply that exposure during removal is essentially harmless.
In theory it only takes ONE ASBESTOS FIBER to cause cancer in individuals particularly susceptable, the trouble is you don't know who is susceptable or sensitive, there's no test, and there is no safe level of exposure!

Quote:

We were told this morning that this may contain asbestos.
I'm freaking out!

Again there isn't any damage or dust visable to the eye, it isn't crumbling. It is firmly stuck to the sub floor.
Chances are it does, assume for the moment it does and act accordingly untill you have tests proving it's not. DO NOT vacuum this, asbestos fibers go right through regular vacuum cleaner filters and they become airbourne.
You cannot see the fibers really, they are microscopic which is one reason why they are so dangerous.
The floor tile likely has the less dangerous form, and because it's a rigid tile it's less dangerous than zonolite vermiculite insulation.
What you don't know is what the people who laid it down did when installing it, or what former owners did, did they use a power tool to cut the tiles, did they sand, drill holes and leave dust behind.
If the tiles are cracked, damaged and crumbly, that's worse than if they are intact.

I would:

1) Get this tile tested ASAP, you will have to google, but you need to send some random samples in or get someone in to take the samples for you.

2) Do not vacuum, scrap, discard, peel up or otherwise disturb the tiles or the floor untill you get the results back!

It is possible that some of the tile has asbestos and some not, it is also possible none has asbestos or it all does, only tests will say for sure, you can't go by appearance, style or age.


By 1980, flooring felt accounted for 45 percent of the asbestos annually used for paper products, replacing previous felt products such as organic felt and jute. Companies added latex or plastisol binding and vinyl sheeting to asbestos to make flooring felt under sheets with patterns likes terazzo.
Companies that manufacture asbestos floor backing include Armstrong World Industries, Inc., Nicolet, Inc., Koppers Co., American Biltrite, Inc.; Amtico Flooring Division, Johns-Manville, Brown Company, Tarkett, Inc., Congoleum Industries, Celotex Corporation, Raymark Industries, Inc., United States Gypsum Company and Georgia-Pacific Corporation.

Intact floor backing may not release asbestos fibers as long as the tile is whole and undamaged, but worn or broken tiles may emit asbestos fibers into the air. Floor backing that has become friable, or able to crumble with the use of hand pressure, endangers health. As long as felt is not disturbed underneath the vinyl tile sheets, the asbestos remains encapsulated, preventing exposure to friable material.
Actions such as cutting, sanding, breaking, sawing and scraping floor backing can disturb asbestos that would normally remain sealed beneath the floor. The backing contains 80 to 100 percent chrysotile asbestos. Removing floor tiles or renovating or demolishing homes may also allow asbestos fibers to become airborne.



http://www.asbestos.com/products/con...-compounds.php



This is the main reason I encapsulated the tile in my gallery building under plywood, I was not going to risk tearing up 900 sq ft of 2 layers thick possibly asbestos, old damaged linoleum tile, I left it alone and put a 5/8" thick floor over it.


The sky is not falling, but the nay-sayers who dismiss the dangers of asbestos and the sheer criminal greed behind the main company (W.R. Grace Co) who knowingly and maliciously exposed untold numbers of employees, homeowners and others to their asbestos contaminated products knows no bounds.
Grace decided to file for bankruptcy and come back with a new name to avoid the lawsuits from sick and DYING former employees and people exposed, leaving everyone holding the bag for cleanup and the health problems.
at least 1/3 of the people in the town where their mine was died from asbestos related cancers.

When W.R. Grace & Company took over operation of the mines in 1963, they knew the vermiculite was contaminated with asbestos and that it caused health complications. But they didn't warn anyone, so mining continued.

W.R. Grace executives knew about the mine's high level of tremolite asbestos dust and that exposure to the dust was damaging to the lungs, yet they never said anything to their employees. Townspeople were also affected by the asbestos-tainted vermiculite, as Grace had distributed their leftover vermiculite for use in playgrounds, backyards, gardens, roads and a number of other popular locations in the town. While the asbestos was circulating in the air around the mine, it also was included in baseball fields and other areas where children and citizens commonly spent their time.


http://www.asbestos.com/jobsites/libby.php
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Old 05-17-2013, 07:26 PM   #22
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pulled up the linoleum does it have asbestos?


Quote:
Originally Posted by gunt0017 View Post
Asbestos should not be taken lightly. In medical school we were taught a fair amount about it by occupational medicine experts, oncologists and respirologists. The main issue is the development of lung fibrosis (restricted lung movement) and mesothelioma (essentially a terminal/uncurable lung cancer at diagnosis)

The main thing is that no level of exposure is safe and much of the risk depends on specific type of asbestos and nature of exposure. Some case reports describe a mesothelioma occurring after only a few minutes of exposure. Certainly some patients are exposed their whole lives and don't develop the cancer, likely just restrictive lung disease that may or may not be symptomatic.

People in this thread are citing examples of people they know who have been fine after prolonged exposure. This is anecdotal evidence and should not be applied to a larger population (ie. internet chat site visitors). The science on asbestos risk is based on rigorous applied epidemiological evidence, and the overall risk is well characterized. Suggesting that asbestos is not a big deal is irresponsible. Get a professional to deal with your asbestos and choose them wisely so they don't contaminate your home.
It is safe to say that due to how widespread asbestos has been used-in floors, roofing materials, cement products, insulation, pipe wrap, brake lining, and much more, probably there is not a person alive in this country who hasn't had at least SOME exposure to it at some point. Given it seems so many women have breast cancer, and cancers in general hit so many people, there's no dismissing the fact the cause is from all the crud we are exposed to in the food, water and air.
You read about the increase in wierd immune failure or nerve damage related diseases, MS, Lou Gherrigs, fibromyalgia and many others, and they can't figure out the causes, but it's the crud people are exposed to.

Dismissing asbestos as a serious health problem is a real bad idea- just ask the families of those who died from various lung cancers from it.
I won't even mention the Love Canal fiasco casued by dumping industrial chemicals.
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Old 05-17-2013, 07:30 PM   #23
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pulled up the linoleum does it have asbestos?


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asbestos is way over rated! I have ripped out old vinyl floors that contain asbestos quite a few times! you just make sure you dont make dust and wear a mask just for good measure.
Asbestos fibers are microscopic, they can go thru those cheap paper filters like you climbing through an open window, not to mention the contamination of the room by it, and then using a shop vac whose filter like the paper mask lets the fibers go through it- now spread into the air and landing on carpets the people were breathing in the house after you left.

The stuff is insidious, and the fact the fibers break into smaller and smaller pieces makes it even more so.
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Old 05-20-2013, 01:46 PM   #24
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pulled up the linoleum does it have asbestos?


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Blah, blah, blah.
That is just a totally irresponsible reply.

To the OP. There is no real way to tell whether a product contains asbestos without testing it. There are other products that look and feel like asbestos. As far as your timeline, know this. First, asbestos was never really banned from products in the U.S. The overwhelming majority of product manufactureres in the U.S. voluntarily removed it from their products in 1982 when the US EPA ATTEMPTED to ban it. Second, products that already contained it were still on shelves at distributors and retailors. These products could easily have made their way into use even long after 1982 since they were not recalled. Some products have it, some don't. The 1983 installation date is hit or miss. Some of the mastics used to adhere tile and sheet goods also contained asbestos.

"The backing contains 80 to 100 percent chrysotile asbestos."

I'm not sure where that statistic comes from, but I'm pretty confident that it is incorrect. That high number would not allow room for asphalt, latex, vinyl or any other binders in the product. Even asbestos breeching cement is not 100%.
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Old 05-20-2013, 02:33 PM   #25
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pulled up the linoleum does it have asbestos?


I remember hearing that the backing was 2-3% asbestos. And there is no danger unless it is friable.
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Old 05-21-2013, 06:45 AM   #26
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pulled up the linoleum does it have asbestos?


Rusty I respect your flooring experience. But, because you heard something is just rumor. There are loads of facts concerning asbestos. Because symptoms take decades to appear, installers usually say it hasn't affected me so the science is B.S. That's a huge error to make.
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Old 05-21-2013, 07:11 AM   #27
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pulled up the linoleum does it have asbestos?


Sorry, but even the EPA says there is no danger unless it is friable.
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Old 05-21-2013, 07:22 AM   #28
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pulled up the linoleum does it have asbestos?


asbestos dust caused by removal of backing materials is the concern. Can you show me where it says it's ok to just remove asbestos backed sheet goods without any precautions?
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Old 05-21-2013, 01:18 PM   #29
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pulled up the linoleum does it have asbestos?


No one said not to use precautions. But you don't need to pay a company for an overpriced removal. As long as it is kept wet, it is safe to remove.
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Old 05-21-2013, 04:04 PM   #30
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pulled up the linoleum does it have asbestos?


I don't expect DIY ers to understand friable/non-friable materials. Stabilized asbestos containing materials can be come friable when removed. And often pros have differing views of removal techniques and standards. But we are held to a higher standard than homeowners.

These guideline are from the Resilient Floor Covering Institute. You can check out their website for more details.

unless sure presume all vinyl sheet flooring contains asbestos.

do not sand,dry sweep,drill, saw, beadblast or mechanically chip or pulverize the resilient flooring.

before removing, vacuum with disposable HEPA filter with no brush attachment.

floor should be kept wet with detergent/water solution while removing cut strips of flooring.

Felt backing must be kept wet while scraping.

Do not dry sweep.

Put material into 6mil plastic bags and label for proper disposal.


I don't always agree with the standards set but that's the way it is.

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