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Old 07-16-2008, 01:18 PM   #1
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Preparing to install Kerdi on bathtub surround


Hi as the title of this thread states, I am preparing to install Kerdi on my bathtub surround and I have a couple of questions for the more knowledgeable and experienced folks.

1) http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=95912736&a lbumID=2044075&imageID=27785465

This photo URL shows the Denshield backer board around the bathtub surround and I guess my first generic Kerdi question is related to the need to tape my joints on the Denshield backer boards. The Denshield installation instructions say to install a mesh tape between the boards and to thinset these joints. But since I am installing Kerdi, I am thinking that I do not need to install the mesh tape. I will basically thinset my corners first, installing Kerdi bands in these corners, then thinset the Denshield sheets and follow up by installing the Kerdi. Am I good to go with these steps? Anyone think I am making a mistake to skip the mesh tape on the Denshield step here?

2) http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=95912736&a lbumID=2044075&imageID=27785476

Originally I was planning on installing the Kerdi+Tiles on only the Denshield backer boards. But on this side of the bathtub I am now thinking of extending the Kerdi+Tile a little further (roughly an additional 6" or so beyond the bathtub) from the floor to the ceiling and I will use vertical strip of Schluter-SCHIENE edging to separate the drywall wall transition to the Tiled bathtub surround. I am thinking of extending the tiles because I think I can do a slightly better job water proofing the bathtub by extending the use of Kerdi. Now I do believe the Thinset+Kerdi will adhere to my drywall, but what about if I plaster my drywall joints. Will the Thinset+Kerdi adhere to drywall mud? or should I determine extactly where my transiton is first and not bother to drywall mud the part that the Kerdi will be covering.

3) http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=95912736&a lbumID=2044075&imageID=27785489

I wish my bathtub did not have this rounded edging seen in this closeup picture. As you can see from the photo, I have installed a small Denshield patch here, but I can not leave it as is. Water can still penetrate here if I do nothing. So should I install some silicone rubber sealant in these gaps before I do my thinset+Kerdi? I know I can silicone the vertical wall gaps between my bathtub and the walls and horizontal gaps between the bathtub and floor afterwards, but I am concerned about waterproofing this rounded curve in the bathtub. Can I silicone first, then thinset+kerdi and then if need be silicone a second time if I do not feel all warm and fuzz that I have properly water proofed my bath tub + wall transition? Or should I just do the siliconing at the end (I do believe the bottom row + corners of the tiles on my bathtub are siliconed and not grouted).

I think this is all for now. I am actually going to be taping and mudding my drywall first, then installing Ditra on my floor before I install the Kerdi on bathtub surround. But I am just trying to plan ahead here and make sure I "make it right" the first time.

Thanks in advance for all those who will reply to this thread.

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Old 07-16-2008, 01:42 PM   #2
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Preparing to install Kerdi on bathtub surround


2 quick things:
1) You need a myspace account to see your pics.
2) I'm not sure about Kerdi over DensShield. DensShield is already a waterproof material. Typically if you're using it, I would suggest RedGard for the seams and screw holes and then you can tile.
Kerdi + DensShield equates to a double moisture barrier and I'm not sure what the ramifications of it are. Perhaps you should call Schluter to see what they say about it.

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Old 07-16-2008, 02:00 PM   #3
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Preparing to install Kerdi on bathtub surround


Ha ha ... sorry about the myspace thing, I wasn't thinking that people would not be able to access them. Maybe I can upload some of my pics here on this site (I am fairly new to this site as well).

Plus I will send the Schulter people a message to see what they say about kerdi on Denshield. But I am under the assumption that it would work since Kerdi is supposed to world on many CBUs, even drywall.
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Old 07-16-2008, 02:03 PM   #4
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Preparing to install Kerdi on bathtub surround


I have added these three pictures to my profile page on this site found here:

http://www.diychatroom.com/members/diy-renovator-26406/albums/bathroom-renos/
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Old 07-16-2008, 02:20 PM   #5
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Preparing to install Kerdi on bathtub surround


Quote:
Originally Posted by DIY-Renovator View Post
Ha ha ... sorry about the myspace thing, I wasn't thinking that people would not be able to access them. Maybe I can upload some of my pics here on this site (I am fairly new to this site as well).

Plus I will send the Schulter people a message to see what they say about kerdi on Denshield. But I am under the assumption that it would work since Kerdi is supposed to world on many CBUs, even drywall.
I'm not saying it won't work. I'm saying it might not be a good idea. The materials you speak of are not moisture barriers. DensShield is. So is Kerdi. You are not supposed to use a double moisture barrier.

Since this question has come up more than once, I have already called my Schluter rep and am waiting for his reply. I'll post their recommendations.
If you have the time, I'd wait for the answer before continuing. I personally would not use the procedure you described. Since the DensShield is already up, I'd tape the seams and waterproof them and the screw holes with RedGard.

Waiting on Schluter...
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Old 07-16-2008, 02:41 PM   #6
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Preparing to install Kerdi on bathtub surround


Thanks for the replies and yes I have been swapping the idea of using Kerdi versus RedGuard for some time now and have not commited to using either product yet. Plus I am in no rush since I am sure I am a week away from waterproofing my shower surround.

I guess I was leaning towards using Kerdi since I wanted to extend my tiling around 6" on one side of my tub that is on top of some moisture resistent drywall and not on the Denshield. I would guess that RedGuard would also work on this moisture resistent drywall?

Question:

what makes putting Kerdi (a moisture barrier) over Denshield (a mositure barrier) any different than putting Kerdi over something like Durorock (a moisture barrier CBU) or Hardiboard (another moisture barrier CBU). Enquiring minds want to know.

PS: I have to run away from my computer for several hours now, so I am in no rush to address all of this stuff this very minute.
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Old 07-16-2008, 03:01 PM   #7
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Preparing to install Kerdi on bathtub surround


Quote:
Originally Posted by DIY-Renovator View Post
Question:

what makes putting Kerdi (a moisture barrier) over Denshield (a mositure barrier) any different than putting Kerdi over something like Durorock (a moisture barrier CBU) or Hardiboard (another moisture barrier CBU). Enquiring minds want to know.
CBU (durock, hardi, etc) are NOT waterproof nor are they moisture barriers. That's why you'd put a moisture barrier like Kerdi OVER them.
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Old 07-16-2008, 03:41 PM   #8
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Preparing to install Kerdi on bathtub surround


After talking with both Schluter and Georgia Pacific, these are the facts:

Kerdi OVER either DensShield or DensGuard IS allowable using an unmodified thinset.

DensShield/DensGuard are NOT a vapor barrier. Their claims of moisture barrier are a bit misleading. The moisture barrier part is only after the panel is tiled.

We all know that tile and grout do not make a wall waterproof.
Therefore, I would conclude that DensShield with tile directly over is NOT 100% waterproof. It may retard vapor penetration but that's it. If you want waterproofing, it's Kerdi or RedGard (or one of their competitors).

DIY-Renovator, you got thumbs up for the Kerdi
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Old 07-16-2008, 05:50 PM   #9
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Preparing to install Kerdi on bathtub surround


Let me chime in here.

No problem going over the denshield use unmodified as Angus suggest.

Kerdi is the best stuff on the market. Excellent choice.

I do disagree with Angus on the redgard but other than that we seem to agree on most procedures.

I am Schluter dealer, have you got your Kerdi already?
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Old 07-16-2008, 07:23 PM   #10
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Preparing to install Kerdi on bathtub surround


Thanks for the replies and to answer 26yrsinflooring's question, no I do NOT have my Kerdi yet. But I am up in Canada and it could be a hassle buying Kerdi off of a US dealer. I may be better off looking locally (Home Depot has it but I am sure I can get a better price elsewhere).
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Old 07-16-2008, 07:51 PM   #11
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Preparing to install Kerdi on bathtub surround


I ship to Canada stop send me a PM or just view my website it is in my profile.
I have best price in the two nations combined

I Use DHL instaed of UPS so they dont kill ya with brokers fees.
How much Kerdi do you need?

30% of my market goes north of the border!

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Old 07-16-2008, 08:29 PM   #12
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Preparing to install Kerdi on bathtub surround


Is it http://www.indianafloorsllc.com/ ?

I will have a looksee at the website later this evening.
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Old 07-16-2008, 08:52 PM   #13
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That is it,stop by.
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Old 07-16-2008, 11:59 PM   #14
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Preparing to install Kerdi on bathtub surround


LOL ... looks like I need to make 20 posts before I can send someone a private message on this site and since I am relatively new here I am only 1/2 way there. I want to do a little more investigating to make sure I am comparing apples to apples, but the prices on your Kerdi do appear to look good (if I am seeing them correctly).
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Old 07-17-2008, 12:00 AM   #15
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Preparing to install Kerdi on bathtub surround


Is your Kerdi full roll the 54 sq foot version? I think I only need about 80 sq feet for this bathroom, but I also plan on doing a 2nd bathroom in the future once this one is finished. So having some left overs on this project is fine.

PS: sorry to everyone else reading this. But I have to get my posts up to send PMs.

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