Forums | Home Repair | Home Improvement | Painting | Interior Decorating | Remodeling | Landscaping


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Flooring

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-10-2008, 07:50 PM   #16
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 64
Share |
Default

porcelain versus ceramic tile


Changeling,

I hope I read you post a little wrong, you didn't mean that the cost of installing tile (the INSTALL part only) was going to change in cost depending on the tile cost did you? An installer should NEVER quote the job based on wether it's a 60 cent tile or a 9 buck one, I Hope you were talking SUPPLY and INSTALL which is why it would change because tile prices are all over the place. If it's not, and the installer wants more because your tile costs more, I'd tell him to stuff it and find another guy, that's just ripping someone off!

dochorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2008, 07:56 PM   #17
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 64
Default

porcelain versus ceramic tile


Changling,

Oh also remember your wastage rates go up when you get over a 14" tile, we do a standard break and waste of 10% on anything smaller, but 15-20 % on anything over 14". (depends on the size of the room, large room like an eat-in Kitchen with Island and sitting area etc. mostly center pieces, then less waste. Narrow hallways plus bathroom, plus closet, plus sunroom all equalling combined the same as that large kitchen I mentioned, we'd then do 20% as there's alot more OUTSIDE pieces than inside and more cuts to do and more chance of breakage and waste.)
Know that if you're paying someone to put them in they will charge more for...

1. large tile
2. multi size tile patterns
3. diagonal installation
4. porcelain tile over using ceramic tile
5. any natural stone will EASILY add another 4-5 bux a s/f (sealed and including the sealer) to a regular install price, it's just a whole lot more work, and more expensive materials.

Last edited by dochorn; 05-10-2008 at 07:59 PM.
dochorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2008, 09:24 PM   #18
JJC
Pro
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Freeport, ME
Posts: 41
Default

porcelain versus ceramic tile


Adam B 500,
The Everglades PEI rating is 3. This is on the second page of the data sheet. Look at the sample pics and the color names, the number in parentheses is the PEI rating. Stone Peak Ceramic is one of the premier manufacturers of Porcelain tiles in this country.
JJC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2008, 02:08 PM   #19
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 27
Default

porcelain versus ceramic tile


dochorn, that is exactly how they were doing it.

Is it possible for you to give a "install" estimate price on the tile that Adam B5000 liked (above) in 12 " tile for a 100 sq ft area in a kitchen including under layment, glue, grout, whatever, but "NOT" including the tile? I mean a fair price.
Changeling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2008, 07:56 AM   #20
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 64
Default

porcelain versus ceramic tile


Changeling,

kinda, but not really....*lol*....I'm off on Mat. leave right now so I don't have my pricing available to me directly, however working from memory I can give you a ballpark of what we would charge. Also remember I'm not in the USA, I'm in Ontario, so our materials are usually a bit more expensive due to transport etc.

We mesh and cement base all our jobs, so we would staple down wire mesh and cement over it to level out the floor. Then second day we set the tiles and third day we grout it. You would probably be looking, without tile, about$1050 - $1100 to install including all materials and labour but no tiles. Tiles at a PEI 3 with that look in our store run around about $1.79-$2.25 per s/f so add on about another 2-300 for tiles, coming in at a total of about $1300-1400 total. Which I think is actually close to what you said, but nobody should charge more if the tile costs more, SURE you pay more TOTAL in the end because your tiles cost more, but if you're buying your own tile and he's putting it in, he should charge you the same labour per s/f if it's a 99 cent one or $6.00 one. (unless you change anything as I mentioned in the other post about extra expenses.) Using a porcelain over a ceramic will run you about 40-50 cents more per s/f for the labour and materials (not incl tile cost extra)
dochorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2008, 08:02 AM   #21
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 64
Default

porcelain versus ceramic tile


Also know that if HE is buying the tiles AND installing them and he want to charge you more then he's REALLY trying to rip you off as most stores that sell ceramic/porcelain etc. give trade discounts and he'll already be getting a discounted price for your tile (which most contractors do not pass along as it's a way for them to make a little extra money in the job) so if ontop of that he then also wants moreto install a pricier tile, I'd be leary about him. We do a standard discount structure based on volume of sales, so say he got 15% off with us, he'll make 14 cents a s/f on a 99 cent tile, but he'll be making 98 cents on a $6.50 s/f tile, so he's already bring in more on the higher the price of the tile. Not saying in anyway that he wouldn't be a good installer, I just don't agree with his ethics.
dochorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2008, 08:07 AM   #22
K&B Remodeler/Tile Guy
 
angus242's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 887
Default

porcelain versus ceramic tile


Quote:
Originally Posted by dochorn View Post
Using a porcelain over a ceramic will run you about 40-50 cents more per s/f for the labour and materials (not incl tile cost extra)
Why? I'm curious. Not to start an argument or call you out. If you'd like even to PM me with your reason, that would be fine (so as to NOT start further pricing debates).
angus242 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2008, 08:16 AM   #23
K&B Remodeler/Tile Guy
 
angus242's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 887
Default

porcelain versus ceramic tile


Quote:
Originally Posted by dochorn View Post
Also know that if HE is buying the tiles AND installing them and he want to charge you more then he's REALLY trying to rip you off as most stores that sell ceramic/porcelain etc. give trade discounts and he'll already be getting a discounted price for your tile (which most contractors do not pass along as it's a way for them to make a little extra money in the job) so if ontop of that he then also wants moreto install a pricier tile, I'd be leary about him. We do a standard discount structure based on volume of sales, so say he got 15% off with us, he'll make 14 cents a s/f on a 99 cent tile, but he'll be making 98 cents on a $6.50 s/f tile, so he's already bring in more on the higher the price of the tile. Not saying in anyway that he wouldn't be a good installer, I just don't agree with his ethics.
I will do a version of this, sometimes. A lot of the time, I am the primary designer on a remodel. That takes time. I should get paid for my time, whether I'm physically working on your home or sitting at my desk designing your kitchen. IF I did 90% of a design (included tile layout), plus picked out the tile by visiting the store myself and bringing a sample to their home plus pick up the tile order (and materials), I feel I'm entitled to reimbursement for that. If I make 5-10%, I feel that's fair under those circumstances. However, if a HO does most of the work themselves, I pass my discount directly to them.
angus242 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2008, 08:21 AM   #24
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 64
Default

porcelain versus ceramic tile


Angus242

No arguements needed, I don't take offence to any of it, it's not my store I work for someone so he sets out the pricing. However, that being said the reasoning behind it is labour and materials. We use a regular thin set mortar for ceramic tile jobs, because we mesh and cement all our floors we have essentially a "new" floor that we're tiling down on and you don't need the more expensive polymer modified mortars to make a ceramic stick a standard thinset around 14.00 / bag works just fine. (This mortar however is ONLY for new concrete, anyone using plywood or cement board or on old concrete (older than 2 years is our standard) you HAVE to use the more expensive one for proper adhesion.) When setting a porcelain, because they don't obsorb water, the regular mortars don't bond properly and you'll get tiles popping all over the place so we have to use a modified mortar that is more expensive around 28.00 bag(which is a difference right there of about 24 cents s/f). Also almost ALL porcelain tile needs to cut with a wet saw, this also takes MORE TIME, plus wear on the saw and saw blade which a single blade for our saws costs in around $100-$120/blade. When you cut with a wet saw, the tile gets wet ( in case of a porcelain only a bit of surface moisture) but it still needs to dry all the same or the tile doesn't bond to the mortar properly. It's mostly a matter of extra time needed to install a porcelain, these days labour is costing more than the materials themselves almost. Which, if you were the guy installing, you'd appreciate it to be that way, because you can't live on peanuts! Everything out there is costing more food/gas /housing etc. so their wages have to go up as well, and when they go up and our costs on our materials go up because the cost of processing and transport has gone up, our install prices have to match or we wouldn't still be in business. Everyone wants a job done cheap...but as we've always seen, when you get a job done cheap, you get a cheap job!

Last edited by dochorn; 05-12-2008 at 08:25 AM.
dochorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2008, 08:23 AM   #25
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 64
Default

porcelain versus ceramic tile


Angus242

If course your time is worth getting paid for! You do more than most, as most clients do their own footwork, and then we write up a selection sheet for them and then the contractor comes in and picks it up/orders it and they almost always take the discount direct after having done no work on the design, our sales staff does all that, we do layouts and drawings etc. and then supply them to their contractor. Good for you!
dochorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2008, 08:24 AM   #26
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 15
Default

porcelain versus ceramic tile


OK, please don't jump all over me for this question. What do you know about "SnapStone"? It's been around for a while. I need to install tile in a 10 x10 room in a beach rental unit. I am going to do it myself and need the easiest install. Floating engineered wood or Pergo won't work because of wet bathing suits and renters not caring about the floors. Can't afford an installer at this point or I'd get regular tile any suggestions? Thanks, Nancy
nancy-max is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2008, 08:27 AM   #27
K&B Remodeler/Tile Guy
 
angus242's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 887
Default

porcelain versus ceramic tile


Oh, I see! So actually, porcelain isn't more expensive....ceramic is just cheaper to install!
I use modified thinset and a wet saw for all my installs regardless of tiling material so that's the way I'd translate it.
Good information!

Thanks
angus242 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2008, 08:31 AM   #28
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 64
Default

porcelain versus ceramic tile


Angus242

*lol*, there's another take on it!! We normally score and snap ceramic installs our guys all have sigmas which can do a whole array of cuts without using a wet saw and they cut much quicker, they can probably do 4 or 5 score cuts to one saw cut! And as far as the mortar goes our base one IS modified, it's just not super modified, we carry three levels of modified, we term them to the public 1. ceramic on concrete, 2. any other interior installation and 3. exterior installation and slate. Then we also deal with white mortar which is modified in the middle range for marble and granite.

Last edited by dochorn; 05-12-2008 at 08:36 AM.
dochorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2008, 08:34 AM   #29
K&B Remodeler/Tile Guy
 
angus242's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 887
Default

porcelain versus ceramic tile


Quote:
Originally Posted by nancy-max View Post
OK, please don't jump all over me for this question. What do you know about "SnapStone"? It's been around for a while. I need to install tile in a 10 x10 room in a beach rental unit. I am going to do it myself and need the easiest install. Floating engineered wood or Pergo won't work because of wet bathing suits and renters not caring about the floors. Can't afford an installer at this point or I'd get regular tile any suggestions? Thanks, Nancy
Pull up a chair and a (big) cup of coffee. Get ready to do some heavy reading. I'd like to say for the record, I find Bud Cline to be a very informative and knowledgeable source for all things tile. Keep that in mind when you read this. Lastly, this is a conversation among professionals and it goes off topic at times....but good reading none-the-less.

http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/...ad.php?t=59417
angus242 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2008, 08:35 AM   #30
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 64
Default

porcelain versus ceramic tile


Nancy-max

Sorry I know nothing about "snap-stone". Hopfully some of the others on here may.

What kind of base is the floor you want to put it down on? Plywood, concrete? If it' conrete real tile isn't all that hard, mostly just time consuming, and I've had MANY a homeowner do it themselves even though they'd never touched a trowel or mortar before and had great success. If it's plywood or similar, you do need to create the proper base for tile and this needs more knowledge, not impossible by any means for a HO, but you'd need more time and info for sure.

dochorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
construction, flooring


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ceramic tile over existing (full mud) ceramic? rjniles Flooring 7 12-24-2008 06:12 PM
stains on ceramic tile sdgoss Flooring 4 09-19-2008 06:19 PM
Preping for ceramic tile install leroyme Flooring 21 11-29-2007 03:31 PM
Porcelain Tile Installation Burat Flooring 6 06-30-2007 03:26 PM
Ceramic tile installed over resiliant tile ramsfanjeff Flooring 1 11-26-2005 02:26 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.