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Old 01-03-2012, 01:53 PM   #31
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Porcelain tile kitchen floor - Getting started


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You suggested verifying over and over as you lay. I'm not sure I understand what I am verifying. There are not really any "rows" to measure to the struck line. Each new tile laid will be on it's own new vertical line.
This is correct.
But, once you have struck control lines on the floor (two in each direction as suggested) you can then verify each tile you place by measuring back to those lines, or measuring to a tile-edge that you know occupies one of the lines. There is some math involved. You also must add the width of the grout line(s) to your measurements. It also help to have and use a large framing square to keep yourself in check.

It isn't as complicated or difficult as it sounds. You just have to keep your thinking ahead of your doing.

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Old 01-03-2012, 02:59 PM   #32
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OK, it's starting to come to me. I think part of my confusion came from not knowing that a "modular" tile will make this pattern behave (stay in a guide line). But one that is not "modular" will make this pattern walk (not land on predicted lines).

Modular - two of the small tiles plus grout line in between are equal width to the large tile.

I think my tile set is close to being modular.

It sounds like either will make a decent looking floor.
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Old 01-03-2012, 03:22 PM   #33
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It can be confusing but if the installation is big enough (which yours may not be) then after toiling and scratching your head for a while it suddenly all becomes very clear and it should be smooth sailing from there.

The trick is to lay down the control lines and even tho tiles won't hit the lines after a point, they can still be measured back to those lines for verification.

This spring my helper and I did 2000 square feet of modular tiles using four different sizes of tile in the pattern and working off of only two control lines. It was a huge PITA but after a point we could toss out tiles and maintain the pattern without effort. Of course we still measured back to the control lines frequently.

In your case what may help is to build yourself a "story-stick". Use a long stick and make marks on the stick that are combinations of your pattern including the measurements for the grout lines. (Those numbers WILL repeat) This way you can use the stick to test your tile locations. Just be sure to NEVER deviate from the control lines. Stretch or crowd your grout joints slightly if you have to but never deviate from the control lines.

It may also be helpful to do a dry layout in the next room so you can look at it when you need to so as to satisfy yourself you are doing the right thing when placing tiles. It helps to have something to look at sometimes.

Don't be afraid to use your square.

If you are using tile spacers then don't totally rely on the spacers to do the job, they won't do it. But they could be helpful. Just don't be afraid to throw one out when necessary and just eyeball the tiles location.
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Old 01-03-2012, 03:25 PM   #34
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The trouble with the pattern you have chosen is that at some point around the edges you will have all sorts of weird size tile cuts to make. So be sure you know when laying out your pattern where the tiles will end-up to avoid unnecessary slivers of tile here and there. Pay particular attention to the tub and the door when laying out the tiles.
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Old 01-05-2012, 02:12 PM   #35
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I pulled up the vinyl, it was only glued at the perimeter. The 1/4" plywood has no screws, nails or staples to pull out! The plywood was glued to the OSB (3/4" Sturdi-board OSB). If I try to pull up the plywood, will this take some of the subfloor with it? I have seen some pictures where this occurred. I don't know if it was glue, liquid nails, or whatever. Should I pull up one board and see what happens? Is there a better way to go about this? I don't want to leave the 1/4" plywood...everyone says that is a ver y bad idea.
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Old 01-05-2012, 02:24 PM   #36
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Not the best move to glue the 1/4" plywood in the beginning but too late now. In my experience the guys that do glue underlayments are short-strokers anyway so my guess is the glue amounts to nothing more than some drizzles randomly tossed around using a caulk gun and glue tube.

See if this is the case.

There will likely be some damage to the main subfloor where the glue was disbursed but it shouldn't be too severe. Just hope the previous installer was as lazy as it appears he was. Gluing is always much easier than using mechanical fasteners.

Do some discovery exploring and see what you are dealing with. Go easy at first just in case.
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Old 01-05-2012, 03:15 PM   #37
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Yeah, I'm the second owner - so no tellin' who did the install. I'll perform the archeaology tonight. The good news is there won't be a million fasteners to pull out of the floor.
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Old 01-06-2012, 12:30 PM   #38
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Good news. The 1/4" ply was not glued to the subfloor, it actually had very tiny staples that I didn't even notice, and not very many. Easy coming up.

Another question (they're gonna keep coming - I promise): For some reason my subfloor is 1" below the drywall (walls). I am going to lay 3/4" BC plywood on the subfloor...is my 1/4 gap measured to the drywall, or to the stud exposed below the drywall? Quarter round and baseboards have been removed.

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Old 01-06-2012, 01:41 PM   #39
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Good news. The 1/4" ply was not glued to the subfloor, it actually had very tiny staples that I didn't even notice, and not very many. Easy coming up.
You got lucky. There should have been twenty-seven million staples in that plywood.

Quote:
Another question (they're gonna keep coming - I promise): For some reason my subfloor is 1" below the drywall (walls). I am going to lay 3/4" BC plywood on the subfloor...is my 1/4 gap measured to the drywall, or to the stud exposed below the drywall? Quarter round and baseboards have been removed.
The required 1/4" gap is measured to any lateral obstacle the floor tile may encounter. It doesn't matter how far above the tile the drywall is. Well it does matter but you get my drift.

In this case you could (cut) stop the tile at a location flush with the surface of the drywall assuming you have baseboard going back in at some point in time.
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Old 01-07-2012, 12:43 PM   #40
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Going to buy the deck screws I will use to install 3/4" plywood over subfloor. Most advice around here says screw every 6" at perimeter of board, and every 8 to 10" all over. That's like 50 or 60 screws per sheet! Can you have too many? I'm not going to count every one, but what would you say is the average number of screws per board? (sheets are 4x8 BC 23/32).
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Old 01-07-2012, 12:50 PM   #41
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This is where I differ from the manuals.

I would use about 40 screws per panel laid out uniformly and systematically.

Keep in mind lapping (previous) seams is important and not screwing into the floor joists is the recommendation. I would stay about 1-1/2" from all edges.

I am just anal enough to layout the panels with chalk lines.
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Old 01-11-2012, 10:23 AM   #42
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Porcelain tile kitchen floor - Getting started


Do I use the same trowel for the thinset under the hardibacker that I am going to use for the tile?
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Old 01-11-2012, 01:03 PM   #43
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Porcelain tile kitchen floor - Getting started


Hi again Joe,

Quote:
Do I use the same trowel for the thinset under the hardibacker that I am going to use for the tile?
Maybe. Which trowel will you be using for the tiles? It's not that critical, anything from 3/16 to 1/4" will be fine. Be sure to make the thin set a bit looser, but not soupy, and fasten from center out. You can use either unmodified or modified under the Hardie backer. Modified only to set the tiles.

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Old 01-11-2012, 02:26 PM   #44
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Trowel is 1/4x3/8x1/4. Wasn't sure if thinset needed to be laid "taller" under Hardiboard, thanks.
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Old 01-11-2012, 06:02 PM   #45
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That trowel would be way too much. It could cause problems, give you waves where there weren't any before. In the end you may end up with 1/16" of cured thickness.

Jaz

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