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Old 06-29-2010, 11:08 PM   #1
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pine T & G for a deck?


Hi everyone, first time poster, looks like a great forum.
I look forward to being able to contribute at some point.

I have a friend that wants to put a T & G pine floor on a covered porch.
Porch is open on front and 1 end.
Currently the porch has a concrete floor and the thought was to put PT sleepers affixed to the concrete at 16" centres and the planks to the sleepers.

She wants to stain the deck as well.

The house is located in Toronto, Ontario, so although it is covered, it will get it's share of rain and snow on it.

My main concern is drainage when it gets wet, and just reading through other threads, is a vapour barrier required over the pad?

Thanks, Terry

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Old 06-29-2010, 11:11 PM   #2
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pine T & G for a deck?


Terrible idea.

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Old 06-29-2010, 11:47 PM   #3
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pine T & G for a deck?


Thanks for the reply.
What if the wood is stained and sealed, with thompsons water seal or other such?

I had proposed a conventional cedar deck with space between the planks, but she thought it looked too much like a cottage.

Any suggestions on how to get the look of the T&G?

Terry
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Old 06-30-2010, 07:39 PM   #4
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pine T & G for a deck?


Prior to posting for advice here, I had also sent an email off to a company in Quebec that makes T&G pine floors.

The guy actually called me back this afternoon and we talked about my plan to use T&G under a covered porch.

No issue he says, they have been using that stuff forever in Quebec and parts east. Yes, it wears out, but not for a long time.

Am I missing some part of the picture?

Thanks, Terry
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Old 06-30-2010, 10:22 PM   #5
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pine T & G for a deck?


Did you tell the sales rep you wanted his T&G pine under a covered porch, or did you mention the slab and sleepers and little or no drainage? Makes all the difference in the world.

Even if you gave him all the details it wouldn't surprise me if he'd say to go ahead anyway. By the time it rots and smells it'll be several years.

Sleepers on slabs covered with wood, is the worst condition you can create, it can be unhealthy too.

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Old 07-01-2010, 09:12 AM   #6
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pine T & G for a deck?


Yes, I explained the whole scenario to him, even sent them pictures.

So, it is basically underneath the structure, the lack of air circulating allowing stuff to dry which is the primary culprit here?

The concrete porch slopes now, never any standing water on it.

leaving gaps between sleepers would allow air, but also chipmunks, to take up residence of which there are plenty of them there.

Thanks for the advice, looks as though it is traditional decking or nothing at all.......Terry
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Old 07-01-2010, 10:08 PM   #7
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pine T & G for a deck?


What do you mean by; "looks as though it is traditional decking or nothing at all"

You've got a concrete porch and that's what you've got to work with. No wood over concrete. You can choose tile, natural stone, stained/stamped concrete etc.....

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Old 07-02-2010, 08:39 AM   #8
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pine T & G for a deck?


What if the sleepers are not in direct contact with the concrete?
I could shim them with 1/8 thick lexan (I'm in the sign and display biz so have easy access to materials like that). lexan pre drilled for the tapcon.

The sleepers are PT pine.

Or what if the sleepers had a sill plate gasket under them like in typical home construction?

By traditional decking I mean 2x6 cedar or PT deck planks, with typical gap (1/4-3/8") between each plank, over the sleepers. This would allow water to fall between the gaps and drain.

This is a covered, not an enclosed porch, I would ventilate, have an air gap under which I would cover with mesh to keep critters out from underneath.

I appreciate your input and advice, but others are also giving me feedback.

I met a contractor in the lumber place the other day who overheard my plan. He suggested it is perfectly fine and that the sleepers and planks should be secured additionally with PL construction adhesive, so now I'm completely confused.

What is the problem with doing wood over concrete specifically?

Terry
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Old 07-02-2010, 08:45 AM   #9
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pine T & G for a deck?


"What is the problem with doing wood over concrete specifically?"
Dirt entrapment which leads to moisture which leads to mold and/or mildew and/or bugs/varmints, smell- -should I go on? ANY wood or imitation wood product over concrete which is exposed to elements is a BAD idea in my opinion. I agree with using some type of tile or mortared layment. David
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Old 07-02-2010, 09:03 AM   #10
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Thank You, now I understand.
Terry.
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Old 07-02-2010, 03:37 PM   #11
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pine T & G for a deck?


I see the word "ventilation" being used but the truth is under these circumstances ventilation wouldn't really be occurring all that readily.

Gluing the sleepers with PL or any adhesive IS NOT the answer. This would only dam each partition and create a place for moisture to linger, that would be the worse thing you could do.

Sleepers running in a direction consistent with the existing slope and elevated on waterproof shims/spacers (as suggested) would be the best answer but even at that in a short time the trapped moisture would degrade the installation.

Just keep in mind that the guys saying this can be done have something to sell to you.

Tile of a composition suitable for exterior use and freeze/thaw conditions would be the best bet. A suitable thinset tile mortar would also be required.

Wood over concrete in an exterior environment really isn't the best idea.
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Old 07-05-2010, 09:52 AM   #12
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pine T & G for a deck?


Thanks for the feedback and info.
She is really hot to do this project, despite the shortfalls.

having said that, what if;

What if I was able to raise, shim support etc the PT support frames at least 1 inch from the concrete, supported by a non porous material?

I also will leave one end of the structure open and block it with steel mesh to keep critters at bay. At the other end, I will put steel vent caps in the floor allowing what is effectively an air tunnel under the structure which should allow enough air to pass underneath?

With a T/G floor, most of the dirt will not be falling through gaps like a regular deck floor would allow.

I could make the perimeter boards removable to allow for annual flushing of the area possible with a garden hose.

Terry
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Old 07-05-2010, 05:42 PM   #13
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pine T & G for a deck?


My honest opinion is to stay away from this.

Sure, whatever you do will be just fine for a couple of years, but at some point, there will be problems. Mold, rot, etc.. What then?
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Old 09-13-2010, 07:57 AM   #14
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pine T & G for a deck?


Well, after much research and discussion she has decided to proceed.

What I have done is space the sleepers off of the concrete porch with a uniquely Canadian approach.....Hockey Pucks.

The pucks are 1 inch thick and were pre drilled.

The P/T sleepers around the perimeter are 2x6 the inner sleepers are 2x4 all laid on the flat and supported where necessary, with the pucks, they are lag bolted to the pad.

The ends of the install are open and covered with 1x4 x 1/4 inch galvanized wire mesh to keep critters out.

The deck boards are 4 inch x 1 1/14" thick T&G pine which I stained with 2 coats all surfaces (including the T&G) with Benjamin Moore arbourcoat opaque stain.

We'll see how this goes, she is aware of the potential problems, but she also did her own research with other construction entities and they said this process should work as it is well ventilated and the pucks won't transmit moisture. It has an air gap all around and the ends are open to allow air flow.

We'll see how it goes.....
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Old 09-13-2010, 08:21 AM   #15
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pine T & G for a deck?


Hockey Pucks.....................................


The conversations it will bring up will probably out last the deck...........

Remember" If women do not find you handsome, They should at least find you handy"

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