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Old 08-21-2011, 07:33 PM   #16
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Peel the vinyl? Or cover it up...


There's no shortcuts to nice results that last a long time...You don't just guess and hope not to have problems later, because YOU WILL HAVE PROBLEMS! Get more info on your beams, it's an unusual system and before any list of options can be made you need to know more about what you're dealing with. They support everything above and obviously this room has had a troubled life. Keep on surfing the old www, and find out who sells those beams and call them.

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Old 08-22-2011, 12:34 PM   #17
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Peel the vinyl? Or cover it up...


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To shore up the subfloor, that's gonna be a challenge. The click lock bamboo should have some give when the floor flexes... I hope.

To shore up the floor would you (after removing the old floor):
1. Add a layer of 5/8 ply on top
2. Crawl under the house and add bracing perpendicular to the steel k beams
3. Add new joists between the steel k beams so it is 24" on center
4. Do nothing until we have a problem (floor separating?)
5. Something else?
I certainly agree with you that shoring up your floor is not only important, it is critical. This gets into some major structural renovations and is very possibly one of your biggest challenges. I totally agree with BlueStoneFloors that the click-lock flooring is out of the question until you sturdy your floor. It will be a complete disaster and waste of time and money.

First I'm going to do my best to answer your questions. Then I'm going to offer some additional advice. I say this because I have nearly no idea of the composition and construction of your beam/joist system. Also, I'm basing my answers on the fact that you will have removed all previous layers of flooring and are down to the original sub floor.
  1. I do not believe adding an additional layer of 5/8" plywood begins to solve your problem.
  2. I doubt this is needed unless you have evidence of the Beams dipping. Bracing below the beams would not address the bouncy floor problem at all.
  3. Bingo, except I'd go with the traditional 16" OC spacing using 2"x6" joist (considering a 48" span between beams).
  4. I would not wait, or if finances dictate otherwise I'd live with a plywood floor until I could afford to correct my structural problem correctly. Having lived without a decent kitchen for a few months myself at one time I can appreciate the hardship. During an extensive remodel, my wife and I used boxes, a camp stove and a bathroom sink to get by. It was not fun.
  5. See my additional suggestions below.
This part of your project is really much more about super structure than it is about the finished floor. Possibly you can find a a framing contractor in your area or here on DIY Chatroom who has experience with this type of system. To do this, I strongly suggest that you break out this portion of your project and post your questions regarding it under ONE of the following forums: Building and Construction, Remodeling or Carpentry. Take a look at these forums and based on content decide which one seems like your best choice to try next.

Below is some additional information regarding your "Kaiser Steel K Beams" joist/beam system, that I believe, you should provide in your new post. If I were doing this project, these are the questions I'd need answers to before I could proceed.
  1. What materials are the beams made of?
  2. Are the existing beams strong enough to attach additional joists to and can traditional wood joist be hung from/attached to them?
  3. If it is possible to attach additional joist, what tools and materials would be required to do this?
  4. Is there any other well explained, written precedent, that can read up on?
  5. Is there adequate access into the crawlspace beneath the kitchen?
  6. Does the space (working room) exist within the crawlspace to correct the joist system or will it be necessary to remove the sub floor (think total time and effort here compared to cost to replace the sub floor)?
Armed with the advice you have received in this thread including the answers and questions above, I'm hoping that you can find some good knowledgeable help in a more suitable forum.

Good luck with your clean up sounds as though you are on the right track. I will still be here and I'd like to follow your progress if you would like for me to. When you start a new thread in one of the more appropriate forums please post me a link in this thread so I'll know where to find it.

Pete

Last edited by PeteW; 08-22-2011 at 12:46 PM.
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Old 08-23-2011, 02:52 PM   #18
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Peel the vinyl? Or cover it up...


I called up the city planner in the building department and asked him a bunch of questions about the floor joists. He said that people are still building houses "in the state" with 4' spans on steel beams. He also said that the special 1 1/8" ply T&G subfloor is more than adequate to support the loads.

When I said, yeah, but it feels like a trampoline... why so bouncy? He suggested it was likely dry rot, and that it wouldn't get better. Said that I could replace the subfloor, or brace it with 2X8s under the kitchen/dining room as a part of my remodel permit, but if I did it in other areas of the house I'd have to get a permit.

Slow progress. Waiting for my protective gear to arrive and for my husband to return from business trip.
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Old 08-23-2011, 04:07 PM   #19
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Peel the vinyl? Or cover it up...


That's actually not terrible news, it means you're not in uncharted territory. I think the bracing with your remodel permit sounds like a good first step. Be patient, I'm glad to hear you are doing it right
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Old 08-25-2011, 06:52 AM   #20
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Peel the vinyl? Or cover it up...


If it is dry rot then the plywood will literally be weak enough is some places to push a screw driver through it. Naturally, you will want to replace it if that is the case. IMHO even if this is true, it will not be enough to just replace the plywood. I would contact the bamboo flooring manufacturer and ask them if they will warranty their product on such a foundation.

Aside from that I still stand by my original recommendations with the following mortification:

I suppose if you continue with the 1-1/8" T&G plywood subfloor a 2' span on joist will probably be sufficient.

Pete

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