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-   -   peel and stick vinyl wood planks - subfloor prep questions (http://www.diychatroom.com/f5/peel-stick-vinyl-wood-planks-subfloor-prep-questions-125651/)

bonanz 12-05-2011 05:15 AM

peel and stick vinyl wood planks - subfloor prep questions
 
Finally decided to replace our nasty carpet in the living room.

Decided to go with peel and stick vinyl planks, we wanted a wood look, but dogs have accidents sometimes and wanted easily replacement if damage occurs.

Everything I read says subfloor prep is more important/time consuming than laying the planks.

We've peeled up the carpet and removed the tack strips. I'm ready to patch the little holes. The cement slab subfloor however has a bunch of overspray paint from the original construction. Do I need to strip/remove this paint before laying the planks? I feel like this will be very tedious/messy (i tried scraping up a small area and it's a pain.

I tried one of those poly abrasive wheels on my angle grinder (4.5 inch one) and it came up pretty easy, but the paint coverage is pretty substantial (maybe half of 400sf room) so it's probably be tough to go over the whole area with my tiny angle grinder. Also I worry about possibly gouging or unleveling areas and needing to use SLC on the whole floor or big areas which would be expensive and i probably could have just done that over the paint in the first place...

Also, should I use henry 336 bond enhancer? will this make a difference on removing the paint? (if i use this can i not remove paint, or if i could get away with laying the tile over the overspray, will 336 cause a problem?)

link to flooring: http://www.lumberliquidators.com/cat...productId=6964

The peel and stick planks are easy enough diy style, but the subfloor prep is probably more important than other types of floors now that i sit here in my living room with the carpet peeled up...

Any help would be appreciated.

rusty baker 12-05-2011 06:22 AM

Just be aware thar LL has a bad reputation.

bonanz 12-05-2011 06:59 AM

thanks i guess, but i was looking for more general suggestions about preparing cement subfloor for peel and stick vinyl floors, specifically regarding necessity (or lack of necessesity) of removing partial paint overspray on the subfloor.

and then a semi-related query on using "adhesive enhancers" such as henry 336.

joecaption 12-05-2011 09:15 AM

You would be better of with sheet goods then the strips.
All you need to do is get the blobs off. As long as the floor is flat it could careless about some paint on the floor. A floor scraper can get any high spots off.

bonanz 12-05-2011 04:45 PM

Here is a picture of an area of how much paint there is. you're saying its okay lay peel and sticks over this? There was some scraping done in this area because there was adhesive used on the carpet padding.

It's "smooth" for the most part but if i rub my hand over it i can obviously feel a transition from smooth concrete to where the paint is. Is that negligible? will a bond enhancer "smooth" that out even more? or is this cool to just clean and stick the tiles on?

http://i41.tinypic.com/15yjkp5.jpg

joecaption 12-06-2011 07:13 AM

The pictures not that clear, is that green in the lower areas? If it is then it may be mold that needs to be treated asap.
A floating floor would be fine to go right over that floor if there are no high places above the main floor area and big low spots get filled with nongypsum floor levler. But not until the moisture is addressed!
If you were to just try and cover it up now mold will be growing under the floor.
I would not wish peel and stick on anyone.

bonanz 12-06-2011 07:01 PM

no that is not mold, just some "better scraped" areas where i had to scrape to remove the adhesive under the carpet pad. if you're talking about under the door, thats the carpet pad. There's no mold, moisture test is fine. I know if it was floating it would be fine over this. Wish peel and stick on me.

Can it be installed without having to scrape the floor totally bare? one dog gets scared at any sign of rain/thunder and will pee on and ruin wood/laminate/carpet. want wood look, don't want tile/bare cement. Also their nails will probably (2 50+ pounders) damage real wood or laminate. don't want to use entire sheet laminate because of the "replaceability" of single planks/tiles if they scratch one up.

I realize everyone thinks peel and sticks suck or whatever, but I think I've thought through floor choice pretty thoroughly for our situation and this is the best compromise for us. I am looking for advice on the best installation techniques, if i have to scrape it all up to get it right and if i have to use "bond enhancer" I'll do it, even for stupid peel and stick tiles... I'd not like to have to scrape it all if I don't. I'd like to just patch the holes and go since the floor is level and I've got up random 3d paint blobs/adhesive...

Please help with installation advice for cement subfloor prepping for peel and stick tiles/planks.

joecaption 12-06-2011 07:24 PM

I can not warn you enough againt peel and stick tiles. It wiil not stay stuck to anything less then a perfect floor, any moisture and it going to come undone, any flaws will show through it, it will shrink over time and gap's wll open up, near imposable to lay in a straight line and have the seams line up because it sticks to fast and can not be moved once it touches the floor.
Once it fails your stuck removing the tile and the glue off the floor.
I've seen quality sheet linolium floors last well over 20 years and still going in homes with 4 kids and 3 dogs.
I've been working in the trades for over 30 years and have worked on at least 500 houses and have seen a lot, so you not hearing this from some first time home owner.

rusty baker 12-06-2011 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joecaption (Post 787757)
I can not warn you enough againt peel and stick tiles. It wiil not stay stuck to anything less then a perfect floor, any moisture and it going to come undone, any flaws will show through it, it will shrink over time and gap's wll open up, near imposable to lay in a straight line and have the seams line up because it sticks to fast and can not be moved once it touches the floor.
Once it fails your stuck removing the tile and the glue off the floor.
I've seen quality sheet linolium floors last well over 20 years and still going in homes with 4 kids and 3 dogs.
I've been working in the trades for over 30 years and have worked on at least 500 houses and have seen a lot, so you not hearing this from some first time home owner.

Only one thing you missed. Many peel & stick tiles are not made square. Really hard to keep from having gaps.

joecaption 12-06-2011 07:40 PM

And the idea that if you need to repair a strip of stip flooring you can just pop one out is just not going to happen. They over lap by about 2" so there's just no way to do it.

bonanz 12-06-2011 08:40 PM

the ones i linked to don't overlap...infact most of the ones i've seen that are adhesive backed don't...I've seen the non-adhesive kind that overlap that you have to glue down, but those aren't what i'm talking about. and I've laid peel and stick vinyl for my old aunt before (maybe it was linoleum can't remember) and those didn't overlap? i mean i looked on armstrongs site and they have ton of square peel and stick tiles that don't overlap...

of your many years of experience, how many times have you installed peel and stick vinyl tiles over cement. When you did it where they all perfectly bare or did you put it over some paint/overspray. can you compare the success rate of either one if both or the failure rate (peelups/shrinkage/etc) if you've only done one or the other?

I'm asking a very specific thing here. I can't understand how recommendations for other products or bashing a certain vendor adds any value.

Thanks Joecaption for offering an answer to my question saying "All you need to do is get the blobs off. As long as the floor is flat it could careless about some paint on the floor. A floor scraper can get any high spots off."

so I just wanted to add a picture and be clear from the flooring experts here because i've read around other places online and they specifically say remove paint or don't install on painted cement, so i've been gearing up for the pain in the @$$ task of scraping all the paint off and smoothing out any gouges that may cause, but then a 30 year trade expert here says it should be fine as long as the major bumps are removed which made me happy, but I just want to be sure I was describing correctly...

joecaption 12-07-2011 07:41 AM

A floating floor will work on your floor with a vaper barrier. It can go over minor flaws and paint.
Anything stuck down most likly is not going to stay stuck because of the flaws and old paint.
I've seen stick down tiles tryed in enterance way, mobile homes, old houses, and on slab home. The reason I noticed it was because we where there to remove and replace it because it was not staying stuck down.
Someone is going to say there's worked out fine, that's because they got lucky and had a floor in better condition then yours.
Vinyl strip flooring can be bought that does not get stuck down to the floor it floats instead, it has adhesive strips that over lap each other.


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