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Old 05-10-2013, 01:48 PM   #31
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New Engineered Hardwood Bowing?


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I will not except them pulling up a little bit of the wood and putting more glue down and then adding a extension gap. It is only a matter of time it happens in another corner or even in the middle when we have furniture in there.
How do you know they would have to add an expansion gap ? Did you ever pull a baseboard and look for one ? If yes, did you measure it ?

You are assuming that That they should have used a moisture barrier. It is required over the the 3lbs mark. It is only recommended (suggested, not required) under the 3 lb mark.

The problem could be the levelness of the concrete slab. It could be that they applied the glue over a cut down residue, or half a dozen other things.

I think you would be a lot better approaching the company with a "we have a problem, and we need to find it so it can be fixed" attitude, rather than your current I am now an expert, you did it wrong, and you need to redo the entire job approach.

Otherwise, the company is liable to just cold shoulder you.


Last edited by Oso954; 05-10-2013 at 03:07 PM. Reason: corrected spelling of residue
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Old 05-10-2013, 01:57 PM   #32
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New Engineered Hardwood Bowing?


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How do you know they would have to add an expansion gap ? Did you ever pull a baseboard and look for one ? If yes, did you measure it ?

You are assuming that That they should have used a moisture barrier. It is required over the the 3lbs mark. It is only recommended (suggested, not required) under the 3 lb mark.

The problem could be the levelness of the concrete slab. It could be that they applied the glue over a cut down reside, or half a dozen other things.

I think you would be a lot better approaching the company with a "we have a problem, and we need to find it so it can be fixed" attitude, rather than your current I am now an expert, you did it wrong, and you need to redo the entire job approach.

Otherwise, the company is liable to just cold shoulder you.
I have not looked at the gap, I have not touched anything since they installed the flooring. I am assuming they should use a moisture barrier if it is over the 3lbs mark. The problem is, that I asked them if they were going to do one and if they did one. They did not.

If it is problem with the levelness of the slab, they did not inform me about it or fix it if it was unlevled. When they got the flooring up, they used something like this to scrape of the black glue that was already down . After they scrapped it up there was still large amount of black coloring and glue down. Here is the ACTUAL picture of the smaller room getting laid. The other room was the exact way.



The reason why I dont want to be like "we need to find the issue and get it fixed" is because from what I read and talked to the glue manufacture and wood manufacture it was not installed to their recommended install method.

Here is a picture of the wood they brought. it was in my house for a couple hours before they took it out and laid it down.

Last edited by 7 VII 7; 05-10-2013 at 01:59 PM. Reason: added other picture
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Old 05-10-2013, 03:01 PM   #33
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New Engineered Hardwood Bowing?


777 Just for your info....

About a year ago or so, I floated a click-lock (and it was a crap HD "Legends") which was approved for a floater or a glue-down, and it did not require any seasoning... said so right on the box. I was surprised, I've always had to season everything for a week before this stuff.

And also, that black glue looks alot like the crap I had at my daughters home. I was pretty sure it came from old tile as I found some in the utility room still down. As it concerned my daughters place, and her flooring was not crap HD stuff, I really checked out the Man instructions/warranty and definitively was told and instructed that I couldn't do a glue down over the stuff I had... I needed clean concrete.

Not sure where this leaves you... but I figure more info is always better.


Also, looks like they may not have staggered their/your end joints 6", which is normal MI.
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Old 05-10-2013, 03:41 PM   #34
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New Engineered Hardwood Bowing?


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777 Just for your info....

About a year ago or so, I floated a click-lock (and it was a crap HD "Legends") which was approved for a floater or a glue-down, and it did not require any seasoning... said so right on the box. I was surprised, I've always had to season everything for a week before this stuff.

And also, that black glue looks alot like the crap I had at my daughters home. I was pretty sure it came from old tile as I found some in the utility room still down. As it concerned my daughters place, and her flooring was not crap HD stuff, I really checked out the Man instructions/warranty and definitively was told and instructed that I couldn't do a glue down over the stuff I had... I needed clean concrete.

Not sure where this leaves you... but I figure more info is always better.


Also, looks like they may not have staggered their/your end joints 6", which is normal MI.
Also, looks like they may not have staggered their/your end joints 6", which is normal MI. What does this mean, lol?
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Old 05-10-2013, 03:59 PM   #35
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New Engineered Hardwood Bowing?


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Also, looks like they may not have staggered their/your end joints 6", which is normal MI. What does this mean, lol?
I'm not sure of your product....TnG or a locking system... but most flooring and MI (manufacturers instructions) want the end of each board laid staggered 6"+ from the end of a board in a course next to it. It lends stability to the floor... besides aesthetics.

Maybe my reference to their/your was confusing. It was "their" (because they laid it... it was "your" because you own it.

Incidentally maybe they did... just a few instances it did not appear so. Oh... and it's not always 6".... I've seen 12" "required" MI
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Old 05-10-2013, 06:15 PM   #36
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New Engineered Hardwood Bowing?


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I'm not sure of your product....TnG or a locking system... but most flooring and MI (manufacturers instructions) want the end of each board laid staggered 6"+ from the end of a board in a course next to it. It lends stability to the floor... besides aesthetics.

Maybe my reference to their/your was confusing. It was "their" (because they laid it... it was "your" because you own it.

Incidentally maybe they did... just a few instances it did not appear so. Oh... and it's not always 6".... I've seen 12" "required" MI
This is tongue and groove engineered wood.
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Old 05-10-2013, 06:37 PM   #37
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777... I didn't mean to confuse anything with my "possible mis-staggered ends" comment. That wouldn't have caused your issue. I just added it as ammunition if you needed it in discussing what the installers did.... plus I can't really see they didn't.

I figured it was TnG.... which isn't the problem either.
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Old 05-11-2013, 06:58 AM   #38
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New Engineered Hardwood Bowing?


So new information.

That black stuff is called "cut back" or "cutback"


another example


The glue they used says this on its Limitations

"Do not apply over any adhesive residues including cutback adhesive"

And that is what they did.

Link to tech data for the Mapei 980 they used Tech Data PDF
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Old 05-11-2013, 08:40 AM   #39
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777.... Yuuuup

Looks like cutback.... When my daughter's house incurred this.... I could find no glue that functions over it.... no solvents to disolve it that would not contaminate the slab...... only open option was to grind it all off, which is a real nightmare as some additionally has asbestos

I had to float my daughters floor

Good luck.... keep us posted on the outcome

Peter

PS: There are other options that were not viable for me....like covering with a plywood subfloor, or using a self leveling skim coat cement (like Ardex).... both give you transition issues and a more costlyextended project.

To try and get as solid feel floor performance as possible... I had to shim the slab alot (daughters slab was wavy)... use relatively thick engineered wood 1/2"... and a TnG (not click-lock) that I call a glue-UP because you glue the TnG.... came out pretty solid... not quite as good as a glue-down though.
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:20 AM   #40
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New Engineered Hardwood Bowing?


Just a follow up. I am getting a environmental lab coming out tomorrow to take up a board or two to see if he can get some of the left over black glue to take a sample to see if it is asbestos.

The flooring company also told me that they will redo the entire floor which includes acclimation, moisture test, correct glue and sealing the concrete slab.... that is if it is not asbestos. If it is, not sure what is going to happen but I have already talked to a lawyer.

I will keep everyone updated. I have also cross posted this on FloorPro Community.
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Old 05-15-2013, 10:06 AM   #41
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New Engineered Hardwood Bowing?


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Just a follow up. I am getting a environmental lab coming out tomorrow to take up a board or two to see if he can get some of the left over black glue to take a sample to see if it is asbestos.

The flooring company also told me that they will redo the entire floor which includes acclimation, moisture test, correct glue and sealing the concrete slab.... that is if it is not asbestos. If it is, not sure what is going to happen but I have already talked to a lawyer.

I will keep everyone updated. I have also cross posted this on FloorPro Community.
Way to Go

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Old 05-17-2013, 06:47 PM   #42
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New Engineered Hardwood Bowing?


Got the results today. The sampling the lab took came back with no asbestos, which is great news.

Next is figuring out the right way to do this!
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Old 05-17-2013, 07:26 PM   #43
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Got the results today. The sampling the lab took came back with no asbestos, which is great news.

Next is figuring out the right way to do this!
777.... Thanks for the update... If ya can.... I would really like to know the way you solve it... for my future information.... and I have more (kitchen) flooring to do for my daughter.

THANK YOU

Peter
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Old 05-31-2013, 09:35 AM   #44
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New Engineered Hardwood Bowing?


Update:

Company came back and said they would either lay a cork underlayment down and redo the work or offer a full refund including the $220 that cost to get the asbestos tested. We are taking that option. I asked them if they were going to demo the crap wood and glue they put down or not. I have not heard back and I wont hold my breath.

I am shopping around for a company to do it right this time. I will do the demo myself if the current company does not... heck it does not even stick to the FLOOR!
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Old 05-31-2013, 10:20 AM   #45
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Update:

Company came back and said they would either lay a cork underlayment down and redo the work or offer a full refund including the $220 that cost to get the asbestos tested. We are taking that option. I asked them if they were going to demo the crap wood and glue they put down or not. I have not heard back and I wont hold my breath.

I am shopping around for a company to do it right this time. I will do the demo myself if the current company does not... heck it does not even stick to the FLOOR!
777... Thanks for the update to date.... I am watching the thread as my daughter has the same issue.

I assume they were just going to float your new floor over the cork underlayment.

Love to know what final solution you may discover

Best

Peter

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