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marcoj32 10-14-2007 11:00 AM

Need Tiling Advise
 
Greeting!!! This is my first post on this forum and I've found it to be very informative in regards to some of my DIY projects.

I'm preparing to replace my entryway floor with ceramic tiling. Here's my delima. The floor currently has parquet glued to the plywood underlayment. After removing a couple of pieces of the parquet, I've discovered that I've got quite a task ahead of me taking it up....but that's not the issue. The problem is once I have it all removed, I'm going to dried glue left on the plywood. Will the dried residual glue be an issue when I apply the thin-set for the backerboard or will I have to rip the plywood up and apply new??? So far it appears the wood is in pretty good shape and it would be a shame if I had to remove it due to the dried glue left behind.

Thanks in advance to any advise you can provide.

KenH83 10-14-2007 01:25 PM

Is the glue uneven or have any high spots, if so knock it down with a floor scraper as much as you can. If its not you should have no problems using a 3/8" square notch trowel to bond the underlayment.

marcoj32 10-14-2007 02:17 PM

Thanks a bunch Ken!!! I really do appreciate your response.....and even more the content of the response. Thank god I don't have to rip up that plywood:sweatdrop: . Well, guess I'll continue chipping away at that parquet. Talk about a pain in the *ss. Those things are really glued down....and in small pieces. I initally thought I could have in up in a day or so. At the rate I'm going, it will be almost a week. I'm considering renting a heat gun to loosen up the adhesive. Oh well, welcome to the world of DIY:laughing: :laughing:

KenH83 10-14-2007 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcoj32 (Post 68023)
Thanks a bunch Ken!!! I really do appreciate your response.....and even more the content of the response. Thank god I don't have to rip up that plywood:sweatdrop: . Well, guess I'll continue chipping away at that parquet. Talk about a pain in the *ss. Those things are really glued down....and in small pieces. I initally thought I could have in up in a day or so. At the rate I'm going, it will be almost a week. I'm considering renting a heat gun to loosen up the adhesive. Oh well, welcome to the world of DIY:laughing: :laughing:

What exactly are you using to tear out the existing floor?

marcoj32 10-15-2007 06:35 AM

Right now just a hammer and chisel to pop that old parquet up

JazMan 10-15-2007 10:43 PM

Is that layer of plywood the subfloor or is it an underlayment? If it's a thin underlayment, such as 1/4" luaun, it should really be removed. That would at the same time make removing the parquet simple. Remove the underlayment with the parquet still attached.

If you're on the subfloor try a chisel tipped putty knife and hammer too. If it's a large area you should be using a larger tool similar to an ice chopper.

I would use the recommended trowel instead of a 1/4x3/8 trowel suggested. What brand are you going to use?

Jaz

send_it_all 10-15-2007 11:18 PM

Actually, if you have the room under the door and such, the best way to do the job would be to screw quarter inch hardi backer board down and lay tile on top of that. It could even be screwed down over the parquet floor if there is enough room. Laying tile on top of plywood is not ideal because plywood moves with changes in humidity and tile does not. This has a negative effect on the bond between the two surfaces. The Hardi board doesnt move, so the tile sticks better longer.....something like that.

Darylh 10-15-2007 11:25 PM

Anytime I redo a floor that has lino or parquet or any other flooring that requires a thin underlayment board I remove down to original subfloor I then find all the joists and chalkline them then screw it down with 2" floor screws every 8" every 4" on outside edges. This stabilizes the plywood and helps prevent any future squeaks. I never use thinset directly on plywood I always use a cement board first and I follow the manufactures directions.

JazMan 10-16-2007 10:05 AM

Send it all,

I disagree with your suggestion of installing Hardi or any CBU over parquet or plank flooring, and so does every manufacturer. I hope you've only done that in your own home.

The old flooring should be removed down to the subfloor then a CBU thinseted and fastened per directions. This of course after the old sub is preped as Daryl said.

Jaz

marcoj32 10-18-2007 06:35 AM

Oh my!!! Where were you fellas two days agol:) . Daryl, is there a reason why you never place the thinset directly to the plywood. I've always heard that you place a layer of thinset under the cement board. I'm not doubting your expertise, just wanted to get your professional opinion. Because I was concerned with height of the finished floor (tiling over the plywood), I did take your advise and rip up the plywood underlayment to the subfloor. Here's another question I have. The plywood/underlayment I ripped up is 5/8" . Can I get away with putting 1/4 cement board down on top of the subfloor as apposed to something thicker. I would like to maintain the same floor height. I figure with the 1/4 cement board, thinset, and tiles, I'll be relatively level with the ajoining room's wood floor.

scorrpio 10-18-2007 07:43 AM

Something is confusing here.
So was there an extra layer of plywood above subfloor that you ripped up, or you are still referring to the parquet?

If you still mean parquet, is it 5/8" thick? If you actually mean underlayment plywood, then how thick was the parquet? Cause if underlay ply was 5/8, and parquet (usually 1/2-3/4) was on top, you would have lowered your floor by a good 1 1/8 - 1 3/8 inches. If so, you got plenty of width to work with. If not, then you need to squeeze backer and tile into those 5/8". With 1/4" backer, 1/4" tile, you'll have the remaining 1/8" for the thinset layers.

If the sub feels solid enough and doesn't flex (make sure to add a few extra screws through the sub into the joists), 1/4" backer should be just fine. Use latex-modified mortar thinset to set the backer on the plywood, screw it down, then tape and mortar over the joints and screwheads. Now you are ready for tile.

Darylh 10-18-2007 09:20 AM

Oh my!!! Where were you fellas two days agol:) . Daryl, is there a reason why you never place the thinset directly to the plywood. I've always heard that you place a layer of thinset under the cement board. I'm not doubting your expertise, just wanted to get your professional opinion.
oopps, I made a mistake here,"sorry". I meant that you should not thin set your tiles directly to plywood.You always thinset your cement board down to the plywood,
The plywood/underlayment I ripped up is 5/8" . Can I get away with putting 1/4 cement board down on top of the subfloor as apposed to something thicker. I would like to maintain the same floor height. I figure with the 1/4 cement board, thinset, and tiles, I'll be relatively level with the ajoining room's wood floor.
As mentioned if your subfloor has not got any flex then you bet use the 1/4", I do it all the time in Kitchen and Bathrooms and hallways

KenH83 10-18-2007 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darylh (Post 68788)
Oh my!!! Where were you fellas two days agol:) . Daryl, is there a reason why you never place the thinset directly to the plywood. I've always heard that you place a layer of thinset under the cement board. I'm not doubting your expertise, just wanted to get your professional opinion.
oopps, I made a mistake here,"sorry". I meant that you should not thin set your tiles directly to plywood.You always thinset your cement board down to the plywood,
The plywood/underlayment I ripped up is 5/8" . Can I get away with putting 1/4 cement board down on top of the subfloor as apposed to something thicker. I would like to maintain the same floor height. I figure with the 1/4 cement board, thinset, and tiles, I'll be relatively level with the ajoining room's wood floor.
As mentioned if your subfloor has not got any flex then you bet use the 1/4", I do it all the time in Kitchen and Bathrooms and hallways

Thank you for correcting yourself atleast for me.. if not for the creator of the thread.

In my 6 year tenure as an installer, i've always seen and personally installed CBU with mortor along with nailing or screwing.

JazMan 10-18-2007 01:58 PM

Marco,

OK, you removed the 5/8" underlayment, but we still don't know what the subfloor is made of. Gotta know that before giving any more advice.

I'd also like to know the age of your house to understand better how the subfloor may have been built. Years ago they used 1/2" + 5/8" ply as the subfloor. They switched to single 3/4" in my area in the early or mid '70's. If your house was built this way, you may have a problem now.

It would be nice to also know how the subfloor is constructed too. Size of joists, spacing and unsupported span. The species and grade if can see the stampings.

Jaz

marcoj32 10-18-2007 06:51 PM

Jaz,

I'd also like to know the age of your house to understand better how the subfloor may have been built. Years ago they used 1/2" + 5/8" ply as the subfloor. They switched to single 3/4" in my area in the early or mid '70's. If your house was built this way, you may have a problem now.

The house was built in the 70s timeframe and I do believe the 1/2" + 5/8" configuration is what was use. After ripping up the top layer (5/8" piece,) I'm now looking at the 1/2" plywood that connects to the joist:help:

The joists are 1 1/2" in width and about 14 1/4" inches between each joist (the end of one joist and the beginning of the next)

If your house was built this way, you may have a problem now.

Are you tell me I should forget about putting tiling down and replace the 5/8" plywood I ripped up? Can I get away with a placing a thinner piece of plywood on top of the 1/2" and then lay the 1/4" CBU? It appears the previous owners did something to that effect because when I first started to remove the parquet only, the 5/8" piece of plywood lined up flush with the ajoining room's wood plank flooring. Of course the weight of the wood planks don't compare to the weight of a tiled floor.


Darylh,

As mentioned if your subfloor has not got any flex then you bet use the 1/4", I do it all the time in Kitchen and Bathrooms and hallways

The subfloor (1/2" plywood) does has some flex but primarily in the area where there was a squeak and the nails were starting to rise from the joist. Once I fasten them down with the screws you suggested, I'll be able to better assess the degree of the flex.


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