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Old 01-03-2013, 10:27 AM   #16
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Laying tile over vinyl


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What do you think about Mapelath?
Oh no you don't !!!

I will say that there is science available for Mapelath and Mapei International has done extensive testing of their product. Obviously with acceptable results.

You can't say the same thing about a Jersey Mud Job. The Jersey Mud Job has repeatedly failed the Robinson Test.

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Old 01-03-2013, 10:53 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Bud Cline View Post
Oh no you don't !!!
What I was trying to ask you was Tavy vs. Mapelath, not "jersey mud".

The point I'm trying to get at is this: we've seen new technology improve (Ditra, et al.) Perhaps Tavy or Mapelath are that new technology.

Other than generic distaste and jumping on bandwagons (which is the favorite activity of some of these forum members), I haven't really heard anything that convinces me either of these 2 products is either good or bad. (I haven't used either, but I'm always on the lookout for new products/techniques.)
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Old 01-03-2013, 12:27 PM   #18
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Bud,

First of all, you used both of my quotes out of context.

Secondly, since Mapei International has done extensive scientific testing on all of their products (obviously with acceptable results), I will scrap wire mesh and tar paper all together since their thin set is approved for use right on top of plywood.

This is the logical vice you put yourself in when you outsource your common sense to corporations - even well respected ones like Mapei. I'm always open to new and better ways of doing things (I use Ditra, Hardi-Backer, etc . . .), but it seems to me that the personal experience of seeing a method hold up to the test of time is a better justification for continuing to use it than any testing a company may promise.

Saying all of that, I'm not looking to change anyone's mind or hold on to a bygone era just for the sake of being stubborn, but I resent the insinuation that I am a hack, and the sanctimonious tone that I sometimes hear on these forums. I'm always appreciative of advice, and eager to learn, and I guess I will just be asking from now on rather than giving any poor advice.
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Old 01-03-2013, 02:07 PM   #19
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but it seems to me that the personal experience of seeing a method hold up to the test of time is a better justification for continuing to use it than any testing a company may promise.
Personal experience should trump company testing. However, it shouldn't trump standardized industry testing, because they take more things into account than we do, and over a longer period of time. Personal experience can trick you into thinking things are OK that aren't.

Having said that, I do also resent the dogmatic attitudes I sometimes see on DIY Chatroom. For example, you'd think tiling over plywood will result in your house falling down if you listen to the tile forum, while the manufacturers and TCA both accept it. I'm a Ditra guy, don't get me wrong... I'm just sayin'.....
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Old 01-03-2013, 03:37 PM   #20
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What I was trying to ask you was Tavy vs. Mapelath, not "jersey mud".
Tavy what? Are you talking about the Tavy Thin Skin and the 007 and trying to compare it to Mapelath?

Two different products.

I have no idea where Tavy is with his underlayment products today. I do know there was a time when Tavy approached both the TCNA and the CTEF and ANSI multiple times in an effort to have his products sanctioned by them and they repeatedly poo-poohed the product(s). Don't know why, other than they didn't pass their testing methods.

Quote:
Perhaps Tavy or Mapelath are that new technology.
Mapelath has been around a long time, certainly isn't new. Same goes for the Tavy products.


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...you'd think tiling over plywood will result in your house falling down if you listen to the tile forum, while the manufacturers and TCA both accept it.
True enough, for all that statement is worth. The TCNA does allow for use of plywood as a direct tile underlayment but only a specific plywood and only under specific conditions and only in limited situations, using only a specific size tile and a limited type of adhesives. (See: F142-11, TCNA Handbook 2011).

The problem with what you are finding on the Internet Forums is most experienced tile installers are aware of the perils that exist in using such a method. It is seen as a somewhat risky method yielding minimal results. With a little Internet Forum experience you quickly learn that a lot of DIY'ers will read between the lines and extract only the information that suits their limited knowledge, limited ability, limited experience, and limited bank account.

The approved plywood quickly becomes CDX because it is less costly, the high performance modified thinset quickly becomes dryset thinset because it is seriously cheaper, the limited size tile (8") quickly becomes 12" tile because it is easier to find and more desirable today, the maximim joist spacing of 16" quickly becomes 19.2" or 24" because that is what they have and it is tile they want no matter what. The fact that the method will not withstand high impacts, wheel loads, or point loads escapes them.

So...it is for those reasons that some of us seasoned pros forbid the thought of installing any tile directly over plywood and strongly and repeatedly recommend against the idea.

Now, if you as a student-of-tile-installation want to discuss the specifics of a method of installing tile directly to plywood that does work then I would be happy to help you.

Quote:
...you'd think tiling over plywood will result in your house falling down if you listen to the tile forum
I challenge you to go anywhere on the Internet and copy and paste (here) where it is someone has made that statement, provide the link also.

You can't do it and you won't find it on this forum either.

So are you here to learn or just looking for an excuse to get your feathers ruffled?

This is one of the reasons I quit participating here on a regular basis. There are always people coming along seeking out what they perceive to be the big-dogs of the forum and then challenging them and getting their feelings hurt, calling them out over nonsense . If you have perused this Chatroom then you know by now that I take no prisoners. If it's knowledge and experience and information you want then here I am, if you simply want to pound your chest then I'm not interested.

Last edited by Bud Cline; 01-03-2013 at 03:41 PM.
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Old 01-04-2013, 02:55 PM   #21
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Laying tile over vinyl


I cant believe this thread is still going. was going to post my opinion the other day.
Thought it was pretty much open and shut.

My opinion comes from quite a bit of tile laying experience, am a total noob compared to others here.
I also live in a mobile home that am remodelling. I have original 5/8" real plywood, and when home was gutted, went over it with 3/4" cdx. I would bet I have twice the quality of floor then jefnc has.
But this helps, but it is the floor joist and spacing underneath that is the actual issue.
I have a big neighbour, is 6'4 and 250 pounds .... he walks across the floor and the tv wobbles around.
This is created by design on mobile homes, To keep the cost of construction low, portability to haul them from one site to another ... list goes on.

I would love to put tile down, it would be the cheapest easiest way for me.
But I know, there is no chance it would last.
One trip from the couch to the fridge from my friend, every grout joint on the way would crack.
Just my 2 cents, if you cant take expert advice from the others that posted before ... you are just trolling until someone gives you the answer you want.

Soo, sure go ahead and use your method and install the tile.
Just do not walk on it before you sell, give the real estate agent instructions to only show it to people under 200 pounds. .... make sure you leave all major appliances with the home.
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Old 01-07-2013, 09:05 AM   #22
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I have decided just to go a different route.

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