Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Flooring

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-11-2008, 10:23 PM   #16
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 840
Share |
Default

Laying "new" wood floor next to sloping old floor


If its sagging in the middle,,,chances are its a failure of the center posts OR the space they set on. pretty lax piers,footings and support under them in those days,specially with 2 story HEAVY old BIG houses. ONLY way to "KNOW" is go in basement and hang a string how ever low it takes to go from side to side of existing foundation. Like 2 X 4 width for a measuring tool,,,or like 4 inches and a small tape measure.,,,if it sags 2 inches say,in the middle the middle joists will only be 2 in. above string.

Then stretch a string along the other way up in the joist area,same way,,,space it couple inches from wood so it doesnt touch when it is banjo fiddle tight.

You can put a string level on both ways JUST to see if one side of your foundation,,,outside walls are level with each other. BUT it is not as impairative the actual foundation be level across from another as long as its continous and straight eith NO gaps to sill!! the whole house can lean a bit,no problem,,,but sags "SHOULD be jacked up NOW,,,before more work is wasted above.

Chances ar either the posts (under center beam)dry rotted off, got chewed off by capenter ants,termites etc YEARS ago,,,OR the support UNDER them isnt sufficient.

Block plenty of space 'away' from the posts,to support a vast area of floor,,,like Brige plank ends or similiar, Not a couple 6" pieces of 2 X4,,,get some of those screw up metal floor posts/jacks menards has on sale this week. IF there are 3 center supports 4 or 5 jacks,minimum,,,twice as many MUCH better,,,jack up striaght and POUR good new piers for the posts to rest on,,,plenty big and deep(based on size of load). Post and block up,,,I prefer metal posts over wood ones,,,with a plate welded on both ends.

I just did this same thing this week and already see the HUGE improvement of LEVEL as possible floors over saggy baggy out of whack crap it HAS been for 30 years!!! When I get the rest of the house remodeled it will LOOK like a house again!!! otherwise it still looks like something trying to fall in a pile,,,of which it really is.

IF its sagging between the center support beam and the outside foundation,(on the span),,you have NO other option but cut the span in half and post and beam it there

4just1don is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2008, 10:33 AM   #17
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 92
Default

Laying "new" wood floor next to sloping old floor


Thanks guys, that sounds like it may be the problem (no center beam/post).

Is that something that some of you would attempt yourself with the 6 ft floor jacks? and a center beam?

There are two floors above this floor, and they have a similar but less noticeable sag as well.
troyce1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2008, 11:05 AM   #18
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 294
Default

Laying "new" wood floor next to sloping old floor


Terry
Verify that it is indeed the problem first.

If it is the case, and saying that you have 2 floors above it with similar sloped floors tells me it is then it needs fixed. I would not recommend this as a DIY project. If you are not trained/experienced in structure and loads you'd be guessing. It just isn't worth it for many reasons, safety being one of them. Too many things can happen.

In my earlier post I stated the floor needs to brought up slowly from the basement. Don't shortcut this process. I bring in a structural engineer to tell me what to do and how to do it. I've been at this for 30+ years and have done several homes with the same issue yours has. It's normal and fixable.
__________________
Shamus
Shamus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2008, 11:19 AM   #19
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 92
Default

Laying "new" wood floor next to sloping old floor


Shamus, I know you can't completely diagnose the problem from there, but how much does something like that normally cost?

We have money budgeted for the rennovation, I just need to figure out where to cut out stuff now.

Also, this is going to set back any rennovations we do on the 2 floors above I assume. I am slightly more concerned about the time set back vs. the cost output
troyce1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2008, 12:19 PM   #20
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,186
Default

Laying "new" wood floor next to sloping old floor


Quote:
Originally Posted by troyce1 View Post
Shamus, I know you can't completely diagnose the problem from there, but how much does something like that normally cost?

We have money budgeted for the rennovation, I just need to figure out where to cut out stuff now.

Also, this is going to set back any rennovations we do on the 2 floors above I assume. I am slightly more concerned about the time set back vs. the cost output
I would not do any renovations till you get this settling solved.

Here is what will happen.

The bottom floor will get jacked up slowly till it is level. Then they will more than likely put in a header to reduce your span which is excessive.

Then the upper floor will have to be jacked up from the first floor till that is also level. A header or some larger joists will have to be put in to keep that from sagging again.

They will also look for other defects in the structure to make sure that the roof and so on are not doing the slow mo cave in.

This process will cause some shifting of all the doors and wood work in the house. You could see plaster popping off, doors not closing or closing uneven, and maybe windows that don't open or even break from the pressure. It sounds like it is just in the center of the room so I don't think widows will be much of an issue.

Until then I would do nothing else till this process is complete. And I might even wait for 6 months after that to make sure everything has settled.

Once everything is back to square you would be good to go on the renovations.

Cost could go from a few thousand to $10,000 or more depending on how much of the house needs new supports.
__________________
My idea of a perfect day: No where to go and all day to get there.

Last edited by Marvin Gardens; 10-12-2008 at 12:23 PM.
Marvin Gardens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2008, 02:37 PM   #21
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 92
Default

Laying "new" wood floor next to sloping old floor


Just went over there again, and checked everything out from the basement. The beams are indeed saging, from the center. The one that sits on the rear foundation wall is perfectly level. the others have sag in them, about .5 inches on each side when a 2x4x8 is placed on them.

I do not think jacking the whole house up is in the budget, my contractor is coming by tomorrow, and I am going to ask him about putting a center beam and those jacks that mentioned before, to prevent further saging. It may not be the perfect fix all, but for the money we have it might have to do.

Its my girlfriends house, she doesnt mind the sagging, but does want to prevent it further.

I appreciate everyone's input, I will keep everyone updated.
troyce1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2008, 02:47 PM   #22
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,186
Default

Laying "new" wood floor next to sloping old floor


Quote:
Originally Posted by troyce1 View Post
Just went over there again, and checked everything out from the basement. The beams are indeed saging, from the center. The one that sits on the rear foundation wall is perfectly level. the others have sag in them, about .5 inches on each side when a 2x4x8 is placed on them.

I do not think jacking the whole house up is in the budget, my contractor is coming by tomorrow, and I am going to ask him about putting a center beam and those jacks that mentioned before, to prevent further saging. It may not be the perfect fix all, but for the money we have it might have to do.

Its my girlfriends house, she doesnt mind the sagging, but does want to prevent it further.

I appreciate everyone's input, I will keep everyone updated.
The problem is two fold.

First it will not stay the same. It will get worse.

Second if she ever sells the place she will have to disclose this and no one will want to spend good money on it with structural problems.

If she can't afford it then this might be a DIY project if you want to do the research and spend the time. Jacking up a house it not difficult if you move carefully and make sure you are safe and block as you go.
__________________
My idea of a perfect day: No where to go and all day to get there.
Marvin Gardens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2008, 02:58 PM   #23
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 92
Default

Laying "new" wood floor next to sloping old floor


Marvin, how would we jack up 3 levels of the house on a DIY? Trust me I would love to have the whole house be perfect and level, but also I've heard horror stories about leveling floors from underneath such as buckling the roof, etc.

Many old houses have "sags" and are not perfect but are still sellable houses. Many people I know have bought and sold houses as such. I can live with the sag and so can my girlfriend and most people I know that have bought similar houses that are 80-100 yrs old live with some level of "unlevelness".

I know we cant afford 8k minimum for jacking up the floor.

Why would putting in a center post beam allow it to get worse.

Marvin, I do appreciate all your help and advice. thanks
troyce1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2008, 03:30 PM   #24
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,186
Default

Laying "new" wood floor next to sloping old floor


Quote:
Originally Posted by troyce1 View Post
Marvin, how would we jack up 3 levels of the house on a DIY? Trust me I would love to have the whole house be perfect and level, but also I've heard horror stories about leveling floors from underneath such as buckling the roof, etc.

Many old houses have "sags" and are not perfect but are still sellable houses. Many people I know have bought and sold houses as such. I can live with the sag and so can my girlfriend and most people I know that have bought similar houses that are 80-100 yrs old live with some level of "unlevelness".

I know we cant afford 8k minimum for jacking up the floor.

Why would putting in a center post beam allow it to get worse.

Marvin, I do appreciate all your help and advice. thanks
A center post will not fix the second floor or the roof if that could be sagging.

Some sagging on older homes is to be expected. But not 1.5 inches in 8 feet. I would never buy a home like that unless I got a really good deal.

Let us know what the contractor says when he looks at it. I would be curious.
__________________
My idea of a perfect day: No where to go and all day to get there.
Marvin Gardens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2008, 01:30 AM   #25
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 840
Default

Laying "new" wood floor next to sloping old floor


Can you take pics of the sagging beam in basement? and general area,,,and floor shots of same AND existing posts in this area? Jacking this thing up isnt rocket science and YES I think most people could do it. YOUR contractor should be able to get you going in the right direction. Just jack "SLOWLY" Have I said 'dont get in a hurry'???YET??? "IF" you have a basement to work in your WAAAAAY ahead of those working in a crawl space. Just stabalizing it with a prop under it,,,is like putting whip cream on an onion!!!

Whenever I saw a structural engineers report,,it was a whole LOT cheaper to overkill the project,,,cause they really diddnt know either AND they charge TOO much for what they dont KNOW!!!

What kind of load bearing does your soil have?? IF its pure mud or peat bog its different than solid rock ledge.
4just1don is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2008, 01:34 PM   #26
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 92
Default

Laying "new" wood floor next to sloping old floor


My fricking digital camera lens isn't working. So no pics for now.

I went over and measured the span from the 2x4 to the joist. It is actually 5/8 inch. The larger measurement was from the kitchen floor which was already slightly higher than the carpet and once we ripped up the carpet and plywood sublfoor were left with a large gap where we were going to lay the new hardwood.

I will try to get another camera for more detailed pics and measures.

Thanks again.

troyce1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
OSB Stronger than Plywood? Weathermaker01 Flooring 15 12-22-2012 09:06 AM
Seal Peel and Stick Tiles? Echo1 Flooring 21 06-22-2012 09:07 PM
Ready to paint the porch! Oil or latex? Leah Frances Painting 8 07-26-2011 07:29 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.