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-   -   lay travertine floor or install kitchen cabinets first? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f5/lay-travertine-floor-install-kitchen-cabinets-first-39758/)

palacenil 03-06-2009 10:59 AM

lay travertine floor or install kitchen cabinets first?
 
I have searched forums but cannot find much, and I understand that there are pros and cons to both options, but would still welcome more input.
Do I install travertine flooring first or kitchen cabinets first?
I have removed old flooring and old kitchen cabinets.
Kitchen is totally bare except for short water pipes coming from floor.
I have a concrete floor (ok condition flat)
I will probably use a professional to install travertine, but do cabinets myself.
Time is not a concern, Kitchen and floor do not have to be rushed.
We can live without a kitchen for a few more days or weeks.
I would rather do what is best.
Thanks for any help.

Floorwizard 03-06-2009 11:32 AM

More cabinets on the floor means less travertine needed to finish floor = less money and the job still looks great.
No brainer IMO

jerryh3 03-06-2009 11:48 AM

I'll vote the other way. I like the floor down first. Less of a chance for clearance problems with dishwasher and no need for a trim piece to cover the tile/cabinet joint. Just lay the travertine an inch under the cabinets and fill in the rest with a material of equal thickness.

ccarlisle 03-06-2009 11:56 AM

Floor first, as all height measurements for base cabinets and wall cabinets, dishwasher, fridge etc start from the floor height. You don't want to tile 'up to' a base cabinet, you want the cabinets to sit on the floor.

palacenil 03-06-2009 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccarlisle (Post 240987)
Floor first, as all height measurements for base cabinets and wall cabinets, dishwasher, fridge etc start from the floor height. You don't want to tile 'up to' a base cabinet, you want the cabinets to sit on the floor.

and that is the problem...
I have been measuring and marking wall cabs and base cabs and have not been able to resolve every problem due to appliances and high pantry. Basically high pantry cabinet next to fridge which has a wall cab directly above it. Pantry has normal wall cabs and base cabs other side of it.
If I tile under fridge as normal, this raises fridge 3/4" which raises wall cab above it, which means it no longer lines up at top with pantry.
If I address this by also raising pantry 3/4" then bottom of pantry door no longer lines up with base cabs drawers. So icould raise the base cabs, then I end up raising everything so why not just tile the whole floor to begin with.
Yes, I understand some tiles will not be seen and so waste some money but i have to tile under range, fridge and dishwasher anyway.

palacenil 03-06-2009 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Floorwizard (Post 240966)
More cabinets on the floor means less travertine needed to finish floor = less money and the job still looks great.
No brainer IMO

I understand that tiles under cabs are a waste of money. If I tile up to cabs, would you recommend still raising cabs to level of new tile floor, or leave cabs directly on top of concrete?

Shifterson 03-06-2009 01:20 PM

floor first, you may want to re-design at a later date. you limit your ability to re-model your kitchen if you're working around where you layed the floor. Cheaper to do it now in the long run. You'll be able to chance it anyway you want and still have a great looking floor. If know 100% you'll NEVER want to re-model I guess saving a buck or two now might work.

ccarlisle 03-06-2009 02:05 PM

So as I have it right - and correct me if I misread your post - but you have no floor, nor base cabinets BUT you do have existing wall cabinets?

That to me screams out "mismatching base and wall cabinets"...:laughing:

But OK, lets say you want new base cabinets only. If you put the tiles 'up to' the new cabinets, it might look OK, but for the appliances you either tile right up to the wall (in which case you have your current problem) or you tile right up to the appliances (in which case you have a problem getting the appliance out for servicing).

Since we service our appliances more often that we remodel kitchens, it makes sense to tile right to the walls. And, if you want to keep the old wall cabinets, then you're going to have to live with the odd repair job, or misfitting parts here and there, goes with the territory.

But as far as tiling the floor goes, the savings of, what, $3 a sqft (?) under the cabinets is made up for the extra cutting it takes to make tiles fit. Best is to tile right up to the walls even around the pipes.

JazMan 03-06-2009 02:11 PM

Install the floor first when ever possible. No brainer. :laughing:

Although it is possible to save some tiles? (Maybe not?) If you install the cabinets first, you will need to shim them more, plus the tilework will be more difficult to do and you increase the possibility of scuffing the cabinets too. I would charge more if the cabinets were in.

Jaz

palacenil 03-06-2009 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccarlisle (Post 241037)
So as I have it right - and correct me if I misread your post - but you have no floor, nor base cabinets BUT you do have existing wall cabinets?

That to me screams out "mismatching base and wall cabinets"...:laughing:

But OK, lets say you want new base cabinets only. If you put the tiles 'up to' the new cabinets, it might look OK, but for the appliances you either tile right up to the wall (in which case you have your current problem) or you tile right up to the appliances (in which case you have a problem getting the appliance out for servicing).

Since we service our appliances more often that we remodel kitchens, it makes sense to tile right to the walls. And, if you want to keep the old wall cabinets, then you're going to have to live with the odd repair job, or misfitting parts here and there, goes with the territory.

But as far as tiling the floor goes, the savings of, what, $3 a sqft (?) under the cabinets is made up for the extra cutting it takes to make tiles fit. Best is to tile right up to the walls even around the pipes.

sorry for any confusion.
no, right now there is nothing in my kitchen. bare walls and bare floors.
New kitchen has been delivered and sitting in my garage.
new appliances are also delivered and waiting to be installed.
I have been unpacking and measuring and "trying" wall cabs and base cabs.

By doing this I have identified potential problems, including height of wall cabs and base cabs with and without flooring.
In particular the problem with cab above fridge and pantry,
and potential mismatching height problem with sink cab and dishwasher cab if I tiled under DW but not under sink cab.

so brand new clean kitchen space, brand new floor, brand new cabs.

palacenil 03-06-2009 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazMan (Post 241044)
Install the floor first when ever possible. No brainer. :laughing:

Although it is possible to save some tiles? (Maybe not?) If you install the cabinets first, you will need to shim them more, plus the tilework will be more difficult to do and you increase the possibility of scuffing the cabinets too. I would charge more if the cabinets were in.

Jaz

Thanks for the advice. I think I agree and I am beginning to think this is the safest way to proceed.
so that's 2 "no-brainers"
1 for cabs first, 1 for floor first.
That's why I love getting different opinions.

Thing is my concrete floor is in excellent condition and so chances are base cabs are likely to need more levelling shimming on top of tiles.

Thanks

palacenil 03-06-2009 02:56 PM

Thanks for everybody's input. I do appreciate it.

Here's what I think it comes down to.
Laying base cabs directly on concrete floor will cause height problems with the base cabs that house appliances. Some cabs will be on 3/4" of top of tile, some will not be.

so options are;
OPTION 1 - install kitchen first, lay directly on concrete anyway and fix the height problems as they arise.

OPTION 2 - If I want to install kitchen first, install all base cabs that will not house appliances approx 3/4 off of floor so that these match the base cabs that will house appliances and be tiled. This way all base cabs will match height.

or

OPTION 3 - lay floor tiles first wall to wall and then install kitchen over the top of floor.

R&D Tile 03-06-2009 03:35 PM

Boy oh boy, when installing all new everything, measure where the cabs will go and mark out on the floor where they will end, tile just beyond that mark, tile all the way in the areas of the range, fridge and dishwasher, no need to waste all that tile under the cabs.

This way they still rest on the tile without having to cut around them, place scrap cuts along the back walls for the cabs to sit, if no scraps, just as easy to throw down some plywood strips the same height as the tiled floor, then shim and install the cabs as normal.

NO BRAINER.:laughing:

JazMan 03-06-2009 04:26 PM

Yup I agree!:thumbsup:

So the "No brainer" score is; The 2 tile guys say tile before when ever possible, and the vinyl & laminate guy says cut around the cabinets! :whistling2:

Oopps, sorry it's 4 to 1 I think?

Jaz

fixrite 03-06-2009 07:15 PM

In my humble opinion I would tile right to the wall, as stated you have the option of changing layout in future, also if you sell it is a good selling point. Also if you do have a leak from your dishwasher, sink or fridge ( if you have water to it), then it will not get under your tiles and potentially lift them. Tile the whole thing.

cheers


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