jennydavis

I have some pictures posted on another site and also a little situation to go along with it. http://www.thefloorpro.com/community...s-failure.html
I wanted to plead for some GOOD ADVICE. The rep. had our retailer call back today and tell us the reason the adhesive failed is because our temps. were too cold. Apparently 70 degrees is not good enough. He had taken a box of our 141 lot and sent it to the factory and they said no matter what they did it did not fail. He also I believe is under the impression we used only a hand roller for our install. When he came to our house he saw a kitchen hand roller in the room and asked what we used that for. I told him we used it to install the planks. I also said I used it a couple days later along with a blow dryer after spending 5 hours heating up the seams that failed. I also told him that as we laid the planks down during the install we used the roller and then when a row was down we used the 100 lb roller. Apparently all he and the retailer heard was that we used the hand roller although the retailer had to call us 2 weeks after we had picked up the 100lb roller to ask for it back because we were rolling it daily several times a day.
So here is the option they gave us. They would replace the boxes we have for 1/2 the cost of what we paid. (:yell: Really generous huh? They said it was clearly an install error. Our floor is too uneven! HUH??? It is not anymore uneven than anyone elses floor on the top osb level. The basement concrete is uneven but the floor is lifting definitely not gapping and there are not any sharp areas. It looks tighter down in the basement than on top osb level. We have a brand new addition built by a popular contractor and then an existing home built by the same person as the retailers home.
Help I need good advice.

26yrsinflooring

Be persistant do not take no for an answer. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. did that guy in AK ever get back with you?

jennydavis

We went and talked to a completely seperate Retail Store from the one we purchased from that also sells Konecto. We talked to two individuals one that sells and one that sells and also installs. They said they have had adhesive issues with their product. They also said they were so hyped about the product initially but not so much anymore. They have turned their attention to the Mannington Adura which they feel is superior.

They KINDLY gave us a set of instructions FROM KONECTO that my retailer failed to give us. Apparently it is what the installers receive. It is very detailed and much more helpful for installation. It also mentions using a center strip.

We were told nothing about it. The rep. mentioned that could be one of the many many accused problems for the lifting. NOW WHOSE FAULT IS THAT? We were not given those instructions nor told about them. We just went off of KONECTOUSA.COM plus what was included in each of the 141 boxes. (The instructions included are vague and say it is as easy as 123......) NOT SO!!!!


(Sorry 26 years in flooring - we did not talk to the guy in Anchorage yet. We thought we had it worked out to where they would just swap the boxes that we still have unopened for new ones - Found out today they won't)

Floorwizard

Hello fellow Alaskan!

Konecto had a problem with packaging and they fixed that. Perhaps this was an older batch. Adura knew about this and has had the proper packaging all along. It helps protect the adhesive strips from being affected by shipping.
Also the boxes need to acclimate for 1-2 days upside down, that helps keep it from lifting.
A hand roller is just fine.
Instructions for install online and in the box did not mention rolling, and I am not quite sure if that has been fixed or not.
Seeing how I am near you, please PM me with details and I can try to help as much as I can.
I know for sure you must not have purchased from me, as I have not had ANY problems with this floor, and if I did, it would have been handled better than what I am hearing from you.

Please PM for help from a local if needed.

__________________
Time to ride again!

jennydavis

We purchased in Feb. of 2008 and received the middle of March 2008. It is the Sierra Plank and has the number #20070710.

We have 9 people who will testify on the homes temperatures at the time of installation and will swear that the temps. since that time have never fallen below 60 degrees. We were able to install because of many many delays finally in August. (Actually August 19th)

We were in the state of Vermont and then painted all the ceilings and walls of 1800 s.f. you will find paint all over floor under flooring. So I have to clarify this choice of being sloppy in my dates. I am not psychic and did not expect this to go to court. So I generalized dates instead of being precise. I should have had a group of people witness our first plank lay down.

We installed in our new addition to our home first on an upper OSB subfloor and a lower level of concrete basement so far. We quit after we saw the problems. We followed the instructions on the 1 year old basement concrete radiant heat floor and fortunately because it was summer the heat not being on for the 6 days after (according to Konectos website) was not a problem. I could not imagine doing that now - brrrrr! We installed while the baseboards in the OSB room were still unhooked. We did so to make the install look as good as can be. No slices or sloppy cut jobs. My husband was able to cut the flooring with a hole saw and make it look perfect. The OSB had a room temperature of about 70 - 75. (within Konectos requirements) It has lots of windows and is very very easy to keep warm because of the fact that heat also rises from the heated floors below. We also have the heat from the rest of the 1500 square foot home coming into the rooms. We do have people like mentioned before that can back the temps. up specifically for the one room in question. I researched alot on the net and tried many of the things suggested like using a blow dryer and rolling the seams again. I spent 5 hours doing that. I put over a 100 lbs on the seams for about 2 days to try to make them stay together. I have not allowed anyone to go into the upstairs OSB room and have kept it meticulously clean. When we finally gave up on the rolling and rolling after laying the floor down we worked up the courage and went into the retailer and told them what was happening. They had the rep. come immediately. He immediately said the room was too cold - this was 6 weeks after installation. So sure the middle of September it was getting harder for us to maintain above 60 degrees in the room without supplemental heat. After he left we had the plumber come back and just install the heat knowing that would now be made an issue. So now to make a long story shorter. The retailer and rep. both say using the "kitchen" hand roller was not a good idea. They both only remember me saying that was all I used. The funny thing is I emphasized that we used that in addition to the 100 lb roller that they had to call and ask for it back. We kept it sooo long they had to CALL US!! We told them over and over we rolled several times a day daily. (Back when the temps. were over 70 in the rooms.) But all they seem to be saying is a hand roller is not enough and say that is all they heard me say. And that basically it is my word against theirs and that I can say whatever I want about how it was installed and they would never know if it was true or not. The downstairs concrete floor looks just as bad. That has the heat and also was 1 year old before we laid it down. It had the required shut off period. That seems to contradict the heat issue. But down in the concrete area they are saying it is too uneven. Funny thing is the spot where it is really uneven is sticking. There is a drain down there and it slightly bowls in that area. No problems there. It is in alot of other areas clear across the room and to the left of it. It does not make sense. I have read and reread KONECTOS website installation instructions for the public and according to those have done everything just fine. Now the instructions that the installers get is different. I received those like mentioned before also from a separate retailer that sells Konecto. Those instructions are a lot more detailed and have a few different guidelines. We never saw those until last night.

The retailer called back yesterday and said Konecto or Seapac not sure which will be generous and pay to have the retailers installer come and fix the seams for us. They also said they would have the installer come and lay the rest of the floor down (about 1500 square feet) for $1.50 a square foot. That does not include prep work. They also said Konecto did the testing on a box we gave them and it was perfectly fine - so the problem is us. So the fact they are offering this option is a real generosity on their part. They don't really have to do anything was the wording.

I think I might like the idea of just getting enough bottles of adhesive to lay the rest of the floor down ourselves. I don't have much faith in them backing the installation either. There will be some excuse as to how it is our fault no matter what.

We are pretty particular people and like to do things correctly and are pretty confident we can make the edges and areas like that look better. We have a home that was built for us and the vinyl and carpet in it right now are not real pretty in some of the corners and edges. Especially around the baseboards.

We have 77 boxes left. Does anyone think just asking for the adhesive would be a good idea at Konectos cost not ours. We have been fighting with this floor since August and struggling with the retailer and rep. since the middle of September (Sorry sloppy again was really and legally SEPTEMBER 24TH THAT REP CAME not middle of sept).

They have their interests of course put first not ours. Pretty crummy way to treat a customer that has bought 3000 square foot of flooring I would say.

I wanted to add also that temps. according to Konectos website seem to imply you would have gapping more so than lifting. We have no gaps but a lot of lifting. We stacked our boxes upside down also and when the rep. came he asked if we just did that or if it has been that way. I guess another thing for him to say is our word against his.

I think everyone in Southcentral Alaska has the same rep. so I know those of you here know who I am probably referring too. He seemed like a nice guy at first but now he is making so many points about our "errors" that according to Konecto's WEBSITE are completely invalid.

Of course like many others with diffulculties there were many unreturned calls and Konecto themselves would not talk with me. They lied and said they would research my case and call back - never did. The rep. did not keep us informed. Neither really did the retailer. I had to go in each time until finally yesterday when I was informed of the generosity they were going to give me.

Anway enough venting -- Thanks everyone for any help.

Floorwizard

The retailer is the first person who should be taking care of you.
Greg is an amazing REP who has ALWAYS taken care of my clients if the proper instructions were in place.
I have never seen him "try" to get out of a claim.
I would hope your Retailer puts you first and explains EXACTLY why there will or will not be a claim.
Sometimes a store should take a small hit to provide the best customer service. However not all of them feel that way at all.
Responsibility can be shared when there is no "proof"
Any chance the retailer has brought that up?

__________________
Time to ride again!

jennydavis

We decided to just ask for the Konecto glue to lay down the remaining 77 full boxes of Sierra Plank. They said they would give me 20 bottles plus whatever else is needed. They also will have their installer come and fix the two rooms that are already laid down. We also requested the CENTER DOUBLE TAPE STRIPS that the installers instructions state is Critical! I will reiterate that we were just given those instructions from a seperate retailer that also said they will no longer recommend KONECTO. They have had issues with some of their jobs. One that if you can believe had TOO MUCH SUN!!! What a great floor to have. It can't be too cold (according to the rep. below 65 cuz that is what my floor was when he came to my house and you cannot have the sun shine on it)

We have 7 rooms remaining that we will still do ourselves. This is not the first floor we have laid down. We have been remodeling and also selling homes ourselves for over 15 years. This is the first time we used Konecto and last time. Also first time for a floor to fail.

After stressing we used a 100 lb roller over and over and over for 2 weeks they still chose to believe all we used was a kitchen hand roller they saw in our home on the floor in the upstairs room. They said it was our story against theirs. Yes that was the rep. and also the store owner. They took away only what they wanted to hear. Even though the owner had to call and ask for the 100 lb roller back after we had it for two weeks. Apparently we just played with it or used it for a "room decoration". The heat issue for the top osb level is a pure joke. The room was a constant heat from the rest of our house and the 2 floors below it. (guess what ??heat rises!!) We starting laying the floor down August 19.

I was told now that when we do the radiant heat we actually do not have to shut off the heat but keep it below 66 degrees. WHAT A CONTRADICTION. The floor in the upstairs non radiant osb was about 70 degrees and they are saying IT WAS TOO COLD!!!!

I am ashamed of Konecto people all they way from the retailer to rep. to Konecto themselves. I will never buy from Metrofloor again because I would have to have the same rep. or recommend Metrofloor. My husband is a contractor and will definitely let his customers know what they could be up against.

I was friendly with the retailer until a couple days ago. I now know they are only looking out for their best interests. Same for the rep. We were nothing but 100% honest. We have 9 people who will testify to the circumstances with the heat and temperature but chose this route only because we are tired of the "headache" and run around that they would absolutely continue to give us.

Thanks Fellow Alaskan for offering your help. It was nice as far as knowing the retailers hands were not as tied as I thought. Especially when they said using the hand roller was not a good thing and I needed to use the 100lb roller. They just "forgot" I guess we had their roller for two weeks for decoration.

Here is a poll from another site also that I find interesting on Konecto. I just started it and so far I am not the only with adhesive issues. BUYERS BEWARE!!!!!
http://www.thefloorpro.com/community/vinyl-flooring-q-and-a/4451-konecto-sierra-problems-failure.html

jennydavis

It is SEAPAC that is paying the installers according to the retail store. And I was told they are going out on a limb for me.

26yrsinflooring

Hi Jenny
It sounds like a resolution is being reached.
I am convince this was from the batch of Konecto with adhesion issues and everybody knows it but they are trying to cover thier butts.
We sell 100,000s ft every year and have had one complaint. That is a better average than Bruce hardwood, Armstrong, Mannington, Shaw,Wilsonart and all the rest of them.

There is failure of floors in all fields and you have been caught in the unlucky minority.

About 20 years ago Mannington developed a floor: Mannington Gold it failed miserbly under all the perfect conditions, the failure rate exceeded 40%! They refined the floor and perfected it by trial and error.

Bruce Hardwood has a failure rate of about 10-15% they will retract that but I have seen it.

Armstrong vinyl has about a 8-15% failure rate, from discoloration to adhesion issues.

You dont even want to know the failure rate of Pergo!! My estimate would exceed 30% yet it is a common household name and many floors that are not Pergo are labled as such due to the commonality of the name.I use to do Pergo board replacments they ran about 3 in every 10 installs. They set up special schools that showed how to do board replacements because of its high failure rate.To be a premium Pergo installer you had to attend all the repaier classes!

There was another product that entered the fray in the 80s called "Interflex Vinyl "different manufacturs had different names for it, it had a wopping 30% failure rate and was perfected over the years it is still being sold.

Another one is Flexitech it had a very low failure rate but the nature of the thick product allowed it compresson on itself and this in turn created bubbles, the refined the install method and the floor is a very common well done vinyl.

Overall Konecto has a 7-8% failure rate so 92% of the jobs installed have no problems whatsover this exceeds all standards set by any of the floors on the market and most of these failures are due to improper installation: No rolling of the joints,no acclimation, no expansion.

If we remove the install errors the failure rate drops

The laws of averages dictate that Konecto performs better than any floor on the market. This is why Mannigton, Nafco and Armstrong are beating themselves to death trying to knock it off!

As far as Thefloorpro site I take little stock in the comments posted there, I was invited to participate as an advisor when the site was set up. I declined.
The site was set up under false pretenses with misleading emails sent to prospective advisors asking for thier input.

I returned to the site after one year and found it to be filled with bias self centered contradictial comments.
I introduced some positive threads about Konecto and was banned from the site, most of the installers there had never heard of Konecto prior to me posting.
The site owner has practiced as an unliecensed contractor for 30 years in a state were it is a felony to do so and his advise and the opinions of his minions are limited.He is also been accused of hacking other flooring sites the truth is only known by him.The site is even set up by a proxy webservice that is designed to disallow identification of the owners true identity without a legal request!
Why one would go through such great pains to hide the owners identity brings questions that I do not want to know the answers to.


There are good people that post there they just do not know the backgorund of the site, I do!
Many times I could have returned under assumed names with a different IP from any of the 4 computers in my office but I have choose to avoid the site like the plague.

To post links from that site to here is an impedement to this site.

This site still has a quality for the Do-It-Yourselfer that I admire and I have been posting on flooring sites since 6 megs was a lot of ram.

jennydavis

Quote:

It sounds like a resolution is being reached. I am convince this was from the batch of Konecto with adhesion issues and everybody knows it but they are trying to cover thier butts.

Not the best resolution but it is one we are willing to try. I just wish I could prove this point without having Lawyers do it for me. I could very well proceed in court ( I have 9 people who are willing to help) but have not and probably won't if they follow up on the glue and double tape strips - due to the headache of all the delays. We have 4 kids and they all want their rooms back after 6 months of upheavel.

I still have to say Beware of Konecto. Remeber Konecto themselves would not talk to me either. And I would not recommed Konecto especially here in Alaska where you have only the one rep. He heard only what he wanted to hear after leaving here. There is no such thing as a 25 year warranty either because I now know they will not honor it. The man mentioned just about everything from moisture (which was nonexistent), uneven floors, the pattern we laid down, the roller method we used from Konectos website and the temperature requirements which is a complete contradiction to the method required for Radiant heated floors. I also feel the conversations he had with the retailer were exaggerations on many levels especially the hand roller since they knew of all people how long we had their 100 lb. roller and the uneveness of our floor. The beauty is the other website I mentioned has pictures of my floor and it looks absolutely normal and wonderful as far as structure. There is no roller coaster. I know he was blowing smoke but we really need to just get on with our lives.

Floorwizard

There will only be 1 rep per city for any city as there will be only 1 distributer.

And I do not blame you.
I just find it odd that this is such a huge story, yet no problems with the product on any of my jobs.
that will always make me take info with a grain of salt.
I hate to hear anything bad about a REP who has always taken care of me on my jobs with other products, but alot can get accomplished when you have a good relationship with a retailer/REP.
Perhaps that is not the case with this retailer.

I wish you all the best....

__________________
Time to ride again!

jennydavis

You are a fortunate man to have had no problems. I went to another totally seperate retailer here locally at the suggestion of a friend of a friend who knew them and they have had some of the same problems as me. But because they installed for the customers they went back and fixed it. They no longer will recommend Konecto. They are I believe actually the largest flooring store here on the Peninisula. I could be wrong but they have been here forever. They also had nothing to gain telling me their experiences. They knew we could not discard our 3,000 s.f. of flooring and purchase from them. They also know the rep. and store we bought from. So not everyone has had "no problems".

As far as the grain of salt .... well... we did more than most installers and people would do for laying down a floor (this being said from a local installer himself). We have been remodeling our own homes and buying and selling homes plus doing family members homes for over 15 years. This is the first floor for us that has had problems. We are not first timers on hardwood or vinyl floors but first timers on Konecto which is supposed to DIY oriented. The only way someone could be sure of our story is if they saw the floor installed in the areas for themselves. I am positive non-biased people would concur with us and say adhesive failure. There are too many contradictions in the stories passed back to us from the ones involved. The biggest fallacy being the roller issue. We have not lied nor will lie about the situation. The truth always eventually comes out.

RSandlin

30% failure rate on Pergo? You're just making stuff up.

Floorwizard

I guess so.

4D's?

I mostly meant complaints about products from anyone. Not just you.
I trust you had issues.
But trust me when I saw that the last 8 years I have been online, there have been tons of complaints about flooring that people would recommend the product should be dumped. In some cases...such as this one...perhaps that is the issue. But in alot of cases, it's just plain frustration.
I again....do not blame you for not recommending the product.

again, I am not saying you are lying at all.

It already has...thanks for sharing it!
Too bad the REP or retailer have different thoughts apparently.




I would say that the failure rate on the "snap,crackle,pop Pergo was much higher than that.
If your not sure about that scenario Sandlin, then do a search on this or any other floor forum.
But the good quality Pergo has always been a sound product-

__________________
Time to ride again!

RSandlin

I appreciate you imput Florcraft but I wouldn't use this or any other forum as proof for failure rates. If you read what people are saying about Konecto you would think it's a terrible product when you and I both know that's not the case. You mostly hear from people who have problems. Not all the people who love it.

Especially when you hear from people like Jenny. And Jenny I'm truly sorry you are having a problem but it says more about the retailer than anyone. The real lesson here is to be careful who you buy it from.

What bothers me about forums is so called experts throw out opinions as if they are facts.