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Old 08-15-2013, 03:43 PM   #1
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Kerdi with pan liner


Is there any problem with having a kerdi layer on the finishing deck mud on top of a standard liner? I would think it makes no difference but want to confirm this.

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Old 08-15-2013, 08:27 PM   #2
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Kerdi with pan liner


The one issue would be the style of drain--Kerdi is bonded to the drain so water can not get under it---the liner uses a drain that will prevent that from working---I hope Jaz looks at this---I'm not experienced with the Schluter products.

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Old 08-15-2013, 09:01 PM   #3
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Kerdi with pan liner


I'd like a detailed explanation and a few pics, but my answer is don't do it.

You're not likely to make the Kerdi waterproof without the Kerdi drain. Water will get in the deck mud and then the mud can not dry by evaporation.

Which to a Kerdi drain with Kerdi fabric, now you're talking a good shower!

Jaz
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Old 08-15-2013, 09:04 PM   #4
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Kerdi with pan liner


Quote:
Originally Posted by oh'mike
The one issue would be the style of drain--Kerdi is bonded to the drain so water can not get under it---the liner uses a drain that will prevent that from working---I hope Jaz looks at this---I'm not experienced with the Schluter products.
I won't have the kerdi drain but my feeling is that whatever water gets to the liner from around the drain will leave via the weep holes like a regular installation. The reason I'd like the kerdi is that I'd like to keep the mud layer as dry as possible everywhere else which I'm thinking is worth it.
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Old 08-15-2013, 09:12 PM   #5
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Kerdi with pan liner


Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMan
I'd like a detailed explanation and a few pics, but my answer is don't do it.

You're not likely to make the Kerdi waterproof without the Kerdi drain. Water will get in the deck mud and then the mud can not dry by evaporation.

Which to a Kerdi drain with Kerdi fabric, now you're talking a good shower!

Jaz
Hi jaz, from what I understand in a traditional shower the top layer of mud is almost always wet and wouldn't this be better than that? Also with evaporation I do t understand how it's a factor since a schluter itself recommends Unmodified because they say the porcelain tile will not let moisture evaporate. Thanks for response all I really appreciate it
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Old 08-15-2013, 10:02 PM   #6
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Kerdi with pan liner


At what stage of building this shower do you find yourself? Is there a pre-slope under the shower pan? Why are you at a stage that you'd like to go one of two ways?

It's best to use a Kerdi drain with Kerdi fabric. The Kerdi drain is the most essential part. If you went with a traditional drain because it was already there and you thought it was too much trouble to remove it, they make an adaptor ring that allows a Kerdi drain to a traditional old style set up.

Thin set, porcelain, modified, unmodified has nothing to do with this subject.

Jaz
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Old 08-15-2013, 10:34 PM   #7
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Kerdi with pan liner


Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMan
At what stage of building this shower do you find yourself? Is there a pre-slope under the shower pan? Why are you at a stage that you'd like to go one of two ways?

It's best to use a Kerdi drain with Kerdi fabric. The Kerdi drain is the most essential part. If you went with a traditional drain because it was already there and you thought it was too much trouble to remove it, they make an adaptor ring that allows a Kerdi drain to a traditional old style set up.

Thin set, porcelain, modified, unmodified has nothing to do with this subject.

Jaz
Right now I am at the point where the preslope is done the liner is In. There is also a cmu shower bench that has been mortared in at one end of the pan. I still have not done the finishing deck mud layer. I didn't k is there was an adapter that sounds interesting. I ended up in situation because I initially had planned to only kerdi the durock walls, which I will be doing anyway but then thought why not do the flow as well and then I can wrap the bench and curb as well ...
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Old 08-16-2013, 06:46 AM   #8
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Kerdi with pan liner


Quote:
Originally Posted by busyhammer

Right now I am at the point where the preslope is done the liner is In. There is also a cmu shower bench that has been mortared in at one end of the pan. I still have not done the finishing deck mud layer. I didn't k is there was an adapter that sounds interesting. I ended up in situation because I initially had planned to only kerdi the durock walls, which I will be doing anyway but then thought why not do the flow as well and then I can wrap the bench and curb as well ...
Also I should clarify that I don't really want one or the other I really want to use both. What if I lay the kerdi so that it is only partially covering the. Floor?
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Old 08-16-2013, 10:49 AM   #9
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Kerdi with pan liner


If you build the base using the old traditional method and do it right, there is no need or benefit to adding additional partial surface treatment.

A partial Kerdi membrane will allow water to entire and soak into the deck mud. The moisture will wick laterally and therefore go under the kerdi where it'll be more difficult to evaporate. What's the point?

If you wanna have a great shower, go Kerdi with Kerdi drain. You can switch to Kerdi and leave the shower pan in place, just install a Kerdi drain.

Jaz
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Old 08-16-2013, 10:58 AM   #10
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Kerdi with pan liner


Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMan
If you build the base using the old traditional method and do it right, there is no need or benefit to adding additional partial surface treatment.

A partial Kerdi membrane will allow water to entire and soak into the deck mud. The moisture will wick laterally and therefore go under the kerdi where it'll be more difficult to evaporate. What's the point?

If you wanna have a great shower, go Kerdi with Kerdi drain. You can switch to Kerdi and leave the shower pan in place, just install a Kerdi drain.

Jaz
Thanks jaz, I guess what I am stuck on is the evaporation part. From what I have read isn't that top mud layer almost continually wet anyway?
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Old 08-16-2013, 11:45 AM   #11
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Kerdi with pan liner


Quote:
Originally Posted by busyhammer

Thanks jaz, I guess what I am stuck on is the evaporation part. From what I have read isn't that top mud layer almost continually wet anyway?
Also what do you think of installing troba under the mud? Would that basically eliminate evaporation problem?
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Old 08-16-2013, 11:51 AM   #12
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Kerdi with pan liner


Quote:
Originally Posted by BusyHammer
I guess what I am stuck on is the evaporation part. From what I have read isn't that top mud layer almost continually wet anyway?
A traditional deck mud is continuously getting wet and also trying to dry out through weep hole drainage and evaporation. This is if it's built right. If not built right, the water will try to evaporate up but because there's so much moisture you get efflorescence deposits on the grout where the moisture escapes. Moisture always moves towards dry air, as it comes to the surface it brings with it the salts/minerals in the concrete. When the water dries, the minerals are left behind, evidence the white powdery materials left on the surface. (usually on the grout).

Do a Kerdi Membrane with Kerdi Drain and you'll love the results.

Jaz
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Old 08-16-2013, 12:10 PM   #13
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Kerdi with pan liner


Quote:
Originally Posted by BusyHammer
Also what do you think of installing troba under the mud?
Troba is the right product/method next time you're building a balcony or roof-top parking garage.

Best showers= surface waterproofing. Why have the waterproofing 2" below your toes where the deck mud et al get wet by design?

Jaz
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Old 08-16-2013, 12:16 PM   #14
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Kerdi with pan liner


Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMan View Post
Troba is the right product/method next time you're building a balcony or roof-top parking garage.

Best showers= surface waterproofing. Why have the waterproofing 2" below your toes where the deck mud et al get wet by design?

Jaz
Im wondering if the troba would offset the evaporation and then along with the weepholes be a good solution. So if there was water btween the kerdo and liner it would easily be able to escape via the weepholes since there would be a cavity there. i mean in that case if there was any significatn moisture in the mud it should have no problem getting out through the troba right?, just thinking out loud.
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Old 08-16-2013, 12:18 PM   #15
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Kerdi with pan liner


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Originally Posted by busyhammer View Post
Im wondering if the troba would offset the evaporation and then along with the weepholes be a good solution. So if there was water btween the kerdo and liner it would easily be able to escape via the weepholes since there would be a cavity there. i mean in that case if there was any significatn moisture in the mud it should have no problem getting out through the troba right?, just thinking out loud.
I think shluter even recommends troba in shower under mud

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