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Old 02-13-2012, 05:36 PM   #1
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Is this joist combo sufficent?


Hi All

This is my first post and after searching through the forums and archives I can't really seem to find the answer to my specific question.

I have an 1870's railroad house. Planning on tiling my kitchen (140 sqft). (12x12 and 6x6 tiles in a hopscotch pattern)

Under the hood it has rough cut hemlock 16"OC 2x8 (actually 2 1/4" x 8 1/2") joists attached through notching to an 8"x8" beam on 12 ft spans. The other end of the joists are attached to the stone foundation wall via sill/sole plate

Up top my plans are to remove the current linoleum and 1/4" plywood. This will expose the 3/4" T&G Plank subfloor. I will go over this with 1/2" cement board and I was planning on using Ditra on top of the CB. Is that overkill? Please consider the age of my house in your answer. Also, the floor has minimal deflection for her age. I can set a glass of water on the floor and walk by it with it barely being disturbed.

1. Is my joist setup sufficient? (Current dead load is fairly minimal fridge and basic electric stove. No aquarims or baby grands on the floor)

2. Can I drop to down 1/4" CB with the Ditra or stick with 1/2" and axe the Ditra plan? I'm not too overly concerned about price as long as I do it right.


I think I'm proceding in the proper (expensive) way but i'm not a professional.

PS please disregard typos. Typing this on an iphone at the Detroit airport.


Much thanks!


Last edited by mschrade; 02-13-2012 at 05:53 PM.
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Old 02-13-2012, 07:09 PM   #2
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Is this joist combo sufficent?


You are good on deflection --604 --or more--360 is safe for tile--720 for natural stone--

Forget the cement board---Use 1/2" bc plywood over the 1x subfloor--dimensional lumber moves to much
to tile over----then add your Ditra---That should be a safe install---

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Old 02-13-2012, 07:15 PM   #3
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Is this joist combo sufficent?


Hi, Welcome,

I didn't notice any typos in your post from my I-MAC located about 28 mi. at a heading of 25 degrees from you as the crow flies.

Quote:
1. Is my joist setup sufficient? (Current dead load is fairly minimal fridge and basic electric stove. No aquarims or baby grands on the floor)
Your joist framing is fine because of your oversized timbers. If they're in good shape of course.

Quote:
2. Can I drop to down (down to) 1/4" CB with the Ditra or stick with 1/2" and axe the Ditra plan? I'm not too overly concerned about price as long as I do it right.
The CBU does you no good at all. Keep the Ditra. However, you can NOT install either CBU nor Ditra over your plank subfloor. You should instead install 1/2 - 5/8" underlayment over the planks then the Ditra.

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Old 02-13-2012, 07:29 PM   #4
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Is this joist combo sufficent?


Thanks Jazz--I'm out of my comfort zone giving out help with Ditra---
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Old 02-13-2012, 07:47 PM   #5
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Is this joist combo sufficent?


The main fault in the plan was going over the planks with CBU or Ditra, or anything for that matter. You can not do that. You need plywood, min. 1/2" but might need thicker depending on the width of the planks and their condition.

So, I would keep the Ditra, install the thickest ply possible since I'm saving height by using Ditra.

There's other things we should know about this, but good for now.

Jaz
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Old 02-13-2012, 09:03 PM   #6
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Is this joist combo sufficent?


Thanks guys.

I forgot to mention that there is also 1/4" hardboard below the 1/4" plywood. So I am ok with going 5/8" on the plywood height shouldnt be an issue The planks are about 5" wide oak (stuff they put in the box car floors on the old freight trains). Based on the ones i saw in the living room when i laid engineered in there this summer they are in decent shape for 130+ yrs old.

I need to use exterior grade plywood correct? Glue it and screw it?

Also, what brand/composition mortars have you had luck with installing against the plywood and then for the tile?

And. Any easy reccomendations/tools for cutting the plywood and hardboard out from around the cabinets?
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Old 02-13-2012, 09:32 PM   #7
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Is this joist combo sufficent?


OK, so go ahead and remove everything until you get to the subfloor. Re-screw, and repair/replace any bad planks. If the planks are 1x6", (7/8 x 5.5"), I would go with 5/8" or 3/4" underlayment grade ply stamped b/c or exposure 1. Screw to the planks only using 1 1/2" flooring screws, do not use longer screws to try to "hit" the joists. Do not screw to the joists. Do not glue the ply to the planks. 1/8" gap between sheets & 1/4" at perimeter.

Use a modified thin set to bond Ditra to the ply. Use a premium unmodified to install any type of tile over Ditra.

Quote:
Any easy reccomendations/tools for cutting the plywood and hardboard out from around the cabinets?
No easy way at all. They make a toe-kick saw, BUT it's probably the most DANGEROUS tool ever devised. One wrong move and it jumps towards your limbs or face.

What is that pic of? Too close.

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Old 02-13-2012, 09:40 PM   #8
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Is this joist combo sufficent?


Ok great info.

Pic was just of the layering i have going on with the plywood and hardboard.


How about one of those bosch/rockwell oscilatting tools?
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Old 02-13-2012, 10:06 PM   #9
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Is this joist combo sufficent?


Yes try one of those multi-tools. I have a Sears model, works great. Never tried it for this purpose. Give it a shot, buy plenty of extra blades.

Are you sure the 1/4" hardboard and 1/4" ply and sheet vinyl is under the cabinets? Shouldn't be, but sometimes it is.

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Old 02-14-2012, 07:44 AM   #10
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Is this joist combo sufficent?


Unfortunately, Yes, they both go under the cabinets. But, I have been looking for an excuse to buy one of those multitools, so, I guess this is as good as any.

Thanks for the guidance guys. I would have probably gone about this install wrong.

Jaz,

Do you reccomend buying the special Ditra trowel?
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Old 02-14-2012, 02:03 PM   #11
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Is this joist combo sufficent?


Quote:
Do you reccomend buying the special Ditra trowel?
I do not necessarily recommend a Ditra trowel unless you're gonna install a lot of it. You can use a 3/16" sq. or 3/16x1/4 V. Do you have any old trowels laying around? The Ditra trowel while nice to own, is expensive and I did just fine without one for many years. If you have no alternatives, go ahead. It's only money.

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Old 02-14-2012, 05:36 PM   #12
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Is this joist combo sufficent?


Picked up the ditra today. Went to the blue big box store and asked for it and I was basically given a blank stare. Went to the orange big box store 20 miles away in Corning and got it.

One last question before I dive into this. When i layed new ply over the plank for my hardwood floor I went perpendicular to the planks with the ply.
Same method here or should I lay parallel with the plank?

Thanks!!
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Old 02-14-2012, 07:08 PM   #13
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Is this joist combo sufficent?


Subfloors and underlayment always go perpendicular to the joists, always. Did I mention always?

Looks like you did it wrong in the other room, but it's not critical there cuz it's hardwood, which also goes perpendicular to the joists.

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Old 02-14-2012, 07:48 PM   #14
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Is this joist combo sufficent?


First layer is opposite of the joists second layer is opposite of the first you must overlay joints by at least a foot.

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Old 02-14-2012, 07:50 PM   #15
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Is this joist combo sufficent?


Where were you 6 months ago??????
Lol

Really appreciate the help. I'll post pics up this weekend to document the progress.

I bought a Milwaukee oscillating multi tool and did a test cut this evening. I think its going to work well.

Hopefully I wont be making any SOS posts to the resident Ditra expert Jaz.

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