Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Flooring

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-28-2012, 10:59 AM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 4
Rewards Points: 10
Default

installing tile over lineoleum or plywood subfloor?


we have vinyl linoleum over a plywood subfloor over the original hardwood floor. What's the best method of installing ceramic tile? Do we have to tear out all the way to the old hardwood?

luv2remodel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2012, 11:06 AM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Hartfield VA
Posts: 27,518
Rewards Points: 4,152
Default

installing tile over lineoleum or plywood subfloor?


How thick is the plywood?
Most often there's 1/4 plywood under the linolium. Both would need to go.

joecaption is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2012, 01:07 PM   #3
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 4
Rewards Points: 10
Default

installing tile over lineoleum or plywood subfloor?


thank you, joe, for your quick response.
Yes, the plywood is 1/4". Even flooring people have told us to just
put the tile right over the linoleum. But others have said you need
a stable underlayment like concrete board? so there is no movement
or expanding under the tile. We've been told to put the concrete
board over the linoleum but it seems that would create more work
readjusting doors, trim, future removal of dishwasher, etc.
luv2remodel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2012, 01:39 PM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Hartfield VA
Posts: 27,518
Rewards Points: 4,152
Default

installing tile over lineoleum or plywood subfloor?


And completly wrong way to do it. Tile can not stand any movement at all.
joecaption is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2012, 01:52 PM   #5
Tileguy
 
JazMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Troy, Michigan
Posts: 4,113
Rewards Points: 2,084
Default

installing tile over lineoleum or plywood subfloor?


As Joe said it ALL have to be taken to the curb, and not because of the height. But I'm interested about the hardwood you mentioned. You may find there is no hardwood in the kitchen, but plywood instead, hopefully. Hardwood is rarely used as the subfloor. Please determine what you've got and report back.

Jaz
__________________
Tile 4 You LLC Troy, MI

DITRA Installs - KERDI Watertight-Mold-Free Showers. I have NEVER made a mistake, I thought I did ONCE, but, I was WRONG! A+ BBB rating - est. 1987 - over 50 yrs. exp.
JazMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2012, 11:52 AM   #6
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 4
Rewards Points: 10
Default

installing tile over lineoleum or plywood subfloor?


it's definitely hardwood. When we remodelled the kitchen about
23 years ago, there was 3 layers of linoleum over it and we tore
it all out thinking we'd sand it down and refinish it; however, we chose to
have the 1/4" plywood layed down and then linoleum. We thought about just refinishing the hardwood floor this time, however, the kitchen floor does not go all the way through to the adjoining dinette, which we are also remodeling, and it at one time was the original kitchen and has a cement porch under the linoleum and a round well cover! Another question, if we do choose to lay tile, how long do you have to wait before rolling the refrigerator and stove back in place? I'm sure the grout has to set up for a time, but how long as we'll have to unplug the refrigerator and the water line to the icemaker to move it out of the way. thanks.
luv2remodel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2012, 12:13 PM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Hartfield VA
Posts: 27,518
Rewards Points: 4,152
Default

installing tile over lineoleum or plywood subfloor?


Nothing you have now is a sutable sub floor for tile. It all really should go and new Advantec subflooring that's glued and screwed down used instead.
While the floors out you can check for sagging, cracked, under sized floor joist and make these fixes before installing the subfloor.
It's do that or have cracking tiles and cracked grout for the life of the floor.
joecaption is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2012, 08:53 PM   #8
Tileguy
 
JazMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Troy, Michigan
Posts: 4,113
Rewards Points: 2,084
Default

installing tile over lineoleum or plywood subfloor?


luv2,

Let's define some terms so we're speaking the same language. The plywood or planks attached to the joists is the subfloor. The plywood under vinyl, which is usually about 1/4" is an underlayment, not a subfloor. Hardwood is rarely the subfloor. Do you have a basement or crawl space under there to see what the subfloor actually is? If too hard to determine you may have to drill a hole to see.

Are you also saying the two areas are of different construction? One area is wood while the other is concrete? That may not be so simple to work with. I need a good accurate detailed description and pics would be nice too.

Jaz
__________________
Tile 4 You LLC Troy, MI

DITRA Installs - KERDI Watertight-Mold-Free Showers. I have NEVER made a mistake, I thought I did ONCE, but, I was WRONG! A+ BBB rating - est. 1987 - over 50 yrs. exp.
JazMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2012, 03:27 AM   #9
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 9
Rewards Points: 10
Default

installing tile over lineoleum or plywood subfloor?


Everything mentioned above isn't always exactly true. You could lay new 1/4" underlayment right over top of the vinyl if it won't come up easily, then lay Schluter-Ditra underlayment on it, then your tile. Or you could rip up the old vinyl and lay right on top of the old underlayment. You would want to make sure your subfloor is secured to joist properly first to prevent any movement or "flex". The schluter underlayment is very expensive however. I've also installed directly on top of plywood. 10 years later the home owner wanted to replace the tile and gave up on ripping it out after 2 hours of work and several different tools, they managed to remove 6 square feet! Do your homework on all your options before you jump on any idea that there is only one way to skin a cat.
cole44t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2012, 03:49 AM   #10
Newbie
 
Beanfacekilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 25
Rewards Points: 10
Default

installing tile over lineoleum or plywood subfloor?


FWIW I fell it is important to remove all flooring until you are at the subfloor. I really wouldn't just keep piling layers on. You also need to determine if the floor is stable enough for tile.

If it deflects too much, the tile will fail. Not all floors are ready for tile. A friend of mine rents a house that has 2x6 floor joists 24" o.c. You could never install tile on a floor like this.

Just my opinion.

Peace.
Beanfacekilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2012, 06:36 AM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: As always..beside myself.
Posts: 4,226
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

installing tile over lineoleum or plywood subfloor?


Here's my 2 cents:

You've got Jaz's attention...use it and count yourself lucky. ( There are other great pro's around here, I don't mean to deny that)
creeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2012, 06:39 PM   #12
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 4
Rewards Points: 10
Default

installing tile over lineoleum or plywood subfloor?


Our subfloor is 2 3/8" wide x 3/4" thick tongue and grooved hardwood nailed into the floor joists. Then we have 1/4" plywood stapled over that
with the linoleum glued on top. One half of the dinette is the same flooring as the kitchen with the other half being a concrete top for the old
sistern. We determined after our first remodelling job of this area that there was a porch over the sistern top originally with the old kitchen being the other half of what is now the dinette. Our house was built in 1928. We put self levelling cement over the sistern top and the porch floor before covering with the plywood/linoleum the first time. We've thought, too, maybe tearing plywood and linoleum off and refinishing the hardwood and laying tile over the concrete part of the floor, but there would be a slight transition and probably something you'd continually trip over in the
dinette! I appreciate all your advice, however, pictures won't be forthcoming as I'm not savvy in that regard on the computer! Sorry.
luv2remodel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2012, 09:26 PM   #13
Tileguy
 
JazMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Troy, Michigan
Posts: 4,113
Rewards Points: 2,084
Default

installing tile over lineoleum or plywood subfloor?


Cole44t says;

Quote:
Everything mentioned above isn't always exactly true. You could lay new 1/4" underlayment right over top of the vinyl if it won't come up easily, then lay Schluter-Ditra underlayment on it, then your tile. Or you could rip up the old vinyl and lay right on top of the old underlayment.
Nonsense! !/4" underlayment, and in the case of luaun, which is even thinner, should not be in a tile sandwich. It's too soft and unstable and also serves no good purpose since it adds little strength, just more height. I don't care if you've done it several times with no apparent problem. I care more about actual controlled testing by associations whose job it is to do such testings and certifying methods which the industry experts agree on.

Quote:
I've also installed directly on top of plywood.
Getting a tenacious bond direct to plywood is not a problem, but such a bond is not the only factor in a quality installation. You also need to consider horizontal stability due to shrinkage and expansion and plywood breakdown from moisture. Tile over double wood is an acceptable method for light duty floors in a dry environment. I don't recommend it though cuz of high failure rate.

Quote:
Our subfloor is 2 3/8" wide x 3/4" thick tongue and grooved hardwood nailed into the floor joists.
Darn! That's unusual but not unheard of. You need to removed the 1/4" along with everything above it. You should then install min. 1/2" underlayment grade ply, then a concrete backer with thin set etc. or a membrane such as Ditra. I'm not sure what you can do with the other area at this point without knowing more or being there. It's likely you'll have two levels unless you can raise the concrete side once the other side is preped. Don't forget to install an expansion gap at the transition. More...............

Jaz

__________________
Tile 4 You LLC Troy, MI

DITRA Installs - KERDI Watertight-Mold-Free Showers. I have NEVER made a mistake, I thought I did ONCE, but, I was WRONG! A+ BBB rating - est. 1987 - over 50 yrs. exp.
JazMan is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to JazMan For This Useful Post:
Beanfacekilla (01-31-2012)
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Preparation for installing ceramic tile RMCarner Flooring 15 04-20-2011 08:32 AM
Can I tile over old plywood with no gaps? JFERTICH Flooring 5 02-21-2011 03:52 PM
Installing floor tile but don't want grout gap to turn black overtime gatorade Flooring 4 02-07-2011 12:13 AM
Subfloor repair Dave321 Flooring 3 09-16-2009 09:59 PM
Backer board vs. plywood for tile underlayment allpraisebob Flooring 4 01-07-2007 08:44 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.