Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Flooring

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-11-2012, 07:48 AM   #46
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 34
Rewards Points: 25
Default

installing tile for easy removal, without damaging subfloor?


I finally decided to use Ditra instead of blanke/Dural/Prova-Flex etc, for the following reasons,
1. Ditra is well established and kind of standard.
2. I have radiant heating underneath, so a bigger contact area is better than bigger air gap area (See picture http://floorelf.com/wp-content/uploa...4/CIMG2831.jpg from Roger's prova-vles vs ditra blog http://floorelf.com/provaflex-vs-ditra )
3. Ditra is only marginally expensive for me (210 square feet = four 52 square feet of Ditra rolls, or one 269 square feet of Prova-Flex)

I will buy some Mapei KeraBond from Lowes today and return the customblend to HD and start the next step soon.


Last edited by AlfredMD; 09-11-2012 at 07:50 AM. Reason: large linked picture occupied big portion of the post
AlfredMD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2012, 09:24 AM   #47
Tileguy
 
JazMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Troy, Michigan
Posts: 4,071
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

installing tile for easy removal, without damaging subfloor?


Quote:
Originally Posted by AlfredMD
I finally decided to use Ditra instead of blanke/Dural/Prova-Flex etc,
Very smart move there Alfred.

Quote:
I will buy some Mapei KeraBond from Lowes today and return the customblend to HD
Nice to hear at least some Lowes carry KeraBond in stock, most carry Keraset which may not be much better than Customblend from the orange place.

Jaz
__________________
Tile 4 You LLC Troy, MI

DITRA Installs - KERDI Watertight-Mold-Free Showers. I have NEVER made a mistake, I thought I did ONCE, but, I was WRONG! A+ BBB rating - est. 1987 - over 50 yrs. exp.
JazMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2012, 07:18 PM   #48
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 34
Rewards Points: 25
Default

installing tile for easy removal, without damaging subfloor?


Thank you, Jazman.

Yesterday I installed Ditra. I bought from Lowes the 54 square feet rolls, 5 of them and I used 4. (210 square feet room). I bought from a local supplier Mapei KeraBond, bought 5 but used 4. Lowes does not have it in stock. I think It took me 5 hours.

I bought the small mix pan from HD and it broke, just like it's middle size cousin. I broke the middle size mix pan by using a rake to rake the thinset when I put down wediboard. The rake knocked a hole at the corner. I broke this one by trying to carry it with 50LB of thinset and 1.5G water in it. The rim broke. Anyway, I might buy another small one to mix thinset when installing tiles on Ditra.

Question, How many hours do I need to budget for installing tile? You can judge from the 5 hour ditra work and 14 hour deck mud work on the same 210 square feet floor. Thank you!
Attached Images
 
AlfredMD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2012, 11:53 AM   #49
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 34
Rewards Points: 25
Default

installing tile for easy removal, without damaging subfloor?


Now I know how long it takes me to tile 210 square feet. It took me 17 hours of non-stopping (except for the minimal time used for water, bread and restroom) single handed work. I started 7:40pm Friday and finished 12:40pm Saturday.
AlfredMD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2012, 01:13 PM   #50
Tileguy
 
JazMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Troy, Michigan
Posts: 4,071
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

installing tile for easy removal, without damaging subfloor?


In reading post #48 I was wondering..... how the heck did you mix the thinset? Did you use a mortar pan? Why? This might been a little better.http://www.google.com/imgres?q=mixin...9,r:4,s:0,i:85

Jaz
__________________
Tile 4 You LLC Troy, MI

DITRA Installs - KERDI Watertight-Mold-Free Showers. I have NEVER made a mistake, I thought I did ONCE, but, I was WRONG! A+ BBB rating - est. 1987 - over 50 yrs. exp.
JazMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2012, 04:37 PM   #51
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 34
Rewards Points: 25
Default

installing tile for easy removal, without damaging subfloor?


I mixed thinset with shovel and mixing pan. Not as good as a mixer, that's for sure. The mistake was that when I installed Ditra I mixed the thinset according to Mapei direction other than Ditra direction, so the thinset was on the dry side. Well, lets wait and see.
AlfredMD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2012, 04:48 PM   #52
Tileguy
 
JazMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Troy, Michigan
Posts: 4,071
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

installing tile for easy removal, without damaging subfloor?


Quote:
I mixed thinset with shovel and mixing pan.
Well, live and learn as they say.

A mortar pan is for mixing mortar as in the mud to make a base for tiles, not thinset mortar.

Jaz
__________________
Tile 4 You LLC Troy, MI

DITRA Installs - KERDI Watertight-Mold-Free Showers. I have NEVER made a mistake, I thought I did ONCE, but, I was WRONG! A+ BBB rating - est. 1987 - over 50 yrs. exp.
JazMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2012, 05:20 PM   #53
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 34
Rewards Points: 25
Default

installing tile for easy removal, without damaging subfloor?


What you said was right. I just wanted to save the $99 mixer and puddler (Harbor Freight). It was a one time DIY job. Later on I can use the pan to plant seedlings, but the mixer and puddler would be useless for me.
AlfredMD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 02:20 PM   #54
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 34
Rewards Points: 25
Default

installing tile for easy removal, without damaging subfloor?


Well, Some tiles are not very even with their neighbours. I am going to dig them out and replace them. If I grout now I may have harder time to replace the uneven tiles later.
AlfredMD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2012, 09:08 PM   #55
Tileguy
 
JazMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Troy, Michigan
Posts: 4,071
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

installing tile for easy removal, without damaging subfloor?


Quote:
Well, Some tiles are not very even with their neighbours. I am going to dig them out and replace them. If I grout now I may have harder time to replace the uneven tiles later.
Good plan

Jaz
__________________
Tile 4 You LLC Troy, MI

DITRA Installs - KERDI Watertight-Mold-Free Showers. I have NEVER made a mistake, I thought I did ONCE, but, I was WRONG! A+ BBB rating - est. 1987 - over 50 yrs. exp.
JazMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 08:20 PM   #56
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 34
Rewards Points: 25
Default

installing tile for easy removal, without damaging subfloor?


Before I grout or dig out the tiles, may I ask how much unevenness is considered "bad enough"? I have rectified 12"x12" tiles, 1/8" grout lines. The worst unevenness is 1/16" at some tile corners. Most are levelled or less than 1/32, some are maybe 3/64. Is 1/16" very bad? What is the "standard" a professional will think is OK in this case? Thank you. I want to know that because I do not want to dig out tiles if it is not necessary.
AlfredMD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2012, 09:22 PM   #57
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 34
Rewards Points: 25
Default

installing tile for easy removal, without damaging subfloor?


Here are some new pictures. Dug out a worst tile; Placed a new one. Cleaned before grouting; Grouted. Looked better after grouting.
Attached Thumbnails
installing tile for easy removal, without damaging subfloor?-dscn1650.jpg   installing tile for easy removal, without damaging subfloor?-dscn1651.jpg   installing tile for easy removal, without damaging subfloor?-dscn1655.jpg   installing tile for easy removal, without damaging subfloor?-dscn1743.jpg   installing tile for easy removal, without damaging subfloor?-dscn1745.jpg  

AlfredMD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2012, 09:26 PM   #58
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 34
Rewards Points: 25
Default

installing tile for easy removal, without damaging subfloor?


Some pictures after grouting.
Attached Thumbnails
installing tile for easy removal, without damaging subfloor?-dscn1750.jpg   installing tile for easy removal, without damaging subfloor?-dscn1751.jpg   installing tile for easy removal, without damaging subfloor?-dscn1752.jpg  
AlfredMD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2012, 01:29 AM   #59
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 36
Rewards Points: 25
Default

installing tile for easy removal, without damaging subfloor?


Interesting.. you've got me curious about a few things.

-Did you mix your mortar to a creamy peanut butter consistency?
-What size (notch) trowel did you use when spreading your mortar?


I think that one of the problems that some of the guys were having is that an easy to remove tile system is doomed to failure before it ever gets started. Tile needs to be completely stable and installed properly, using the proper setting materials and methods, from the substrate up through project completion. If the tile isn't stable, or if you use a method that will be much more likely to have bond/delamination issues then cracking grout all over the place will be the least of your worries. If you need to remove/repair some of the tile it can be difficult when using an uncoupling membrane.. once it uncouples there's no going back, and movement in a finished tile installation equals cracked grout joints or worse. I've had to remove a number of Ditra installations done by other "professionals" due to them failing. I'm not saying that's it's a bad product, just that we don't use it in our installations.

There is almost always a better product or method of installation to address substrate issues or potential movement. If the floor is not a good candidate for tile then we aren't going to try and force a material to magically do something that we already know it can't. There are a great many flooring products available these days. You might be suprised at how beautiful of a floor you can get when using a different material that is better suited to handle your specific installation needs and concerns. I know that this is a moot point, seeing as how your floor is finished, but I do hope that it holds up well for you.

Oh yeah, before I forget, do NOT run your radiant heat system for at least 28 days. Don't turn it on at all. Hopefully you checked the lines for any leaks or punctures prior to packing the mud, but regardless just leave the system off. If you run the radiant heat system too soon you will compromise the integrity of your mud and mortar.

One last oddball question, but is Ditra even recommended for use over radiant heat? I'm curious as to what effect, if any, that the Ditra would have on heat transmission.

Anyway, I've rambled on long enough. Take care and good luck!

Last edited by RWCustom; 10-31-2012 at 01:31 AM.
RWCustom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2012, 11:06 AM   #60
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 34
Rewards Points: 25
Default

installing tile for easy removal, without damaging subfloor?


RwCustom,

Thank you for your long post. The title of this thread is now misleading. I have abandoned my original goal of "easy to remove", based on what people said in this thread. It is now a very "standard" installation.

I had learned some lessons from this project. The first is that I probably can replace wediboard with cheaper xps boards as insulation. The second is I would have been able to make the deck mud more flat than it is. I wolked on it, made dents here and there with my shoes. This made installing Ditra flat difficult. The third is when installing Ditra, I forgot to mix the thinset looser. If the mud bed were flat, I would have been able to use looser and thinner layer of thinset. Big lesson was trying to level the bed with thinset under Ditra. If Ditra was very flat, I would have been able to use less thinset to install the tiles, and they would have been able to stay more level.

The unevenness was as bad as 1/16" at some places. After grouting, it looked much better.

You asked whether I have creamy peanut butter consistency. The answer is yes (on top of Ditra) and yes (under Ditra, a mistake). Notch sizes, are on the bigger side on top of Ditra and under Ditra, according to standard. (forgot exactly what, need to take a look later when being home) If the bed were flatter, I would have been able to use smaller notch sizes.

I read somewhere that Ditra could be used on top of heated floor. Maybe it was from the manufacturer, or from somewhere else. It will surely slow down the transition of heat. But I think since variant material expands and subtracts with temperature change, Ditra might do me some good.

Thank you for reminding me the 28 day rule of applying water heating. The mud bed is now about one and half month old, the tiles about 1 month. I had the long delay because I did not know whether I wanted to dig out more tiles than the worst one. After looking at some other tile installations I found mine acceptable.

AlfredMD is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Installing a basement subfloor around floor drains temetnosce Remodeling 3 08-06-2012 04:40 PM
Installing towel hanger shelf through bathroom tile and drywall zeramuas Kitchen & Bath Remodeling 3 01-14-2011 07:01 AM
Installing Hardwood Floor butting up to tile Macker Flooring 3 01-02-2011 03:21 PM
Fixing Noisy Subfloor (No Tile) Todd85 Flooring 5 05-12-2010 04:14 PM
replacing subfloor for tile upgrade bucaronco Flooring 5 07-29-2009 04:35 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.