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Old 03-29-2010, 11:52 AM   #46
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installing Slate title to outdoor cement


Hi Scott, thanks for the kind remarks, although my job looks like a cartoon in comparison to the work of art in Bud's picture. He is an amazing craftsman, obviously.

I purchased my tile at The Tile Store. They were reliable and helpful.

Best Wishes to you with your project. Once complete, please post a photo!

Steve

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Old 04-01-2010, 08:41 PM   #47
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installing Slate title to outdoor cement


Yes the patio-slate installation is in Hastings Nebraska.

The customer bought that particular slate from Home Depot and it is the basic inexpesive chinese slate that is everywhere these days. I warned them about using the slate out doors but that's what they wanted to do.

Now, a few years later the patio is holding up fine for the most part. There has been some shedding of wafers as predicted and some iron oxidation (discoloring) coming from within the tile/slate.

My only regret on that job is that I used a high-dollar stone enhancer/sealer that worked much too well. The oxidation is being stimulated from below (my guess) but is also being sealed into the surface of the stone and you can't get to it to clean it without stripping off the sealer.

The customer thinks it's great and loves it, it adds charm, but the rust stains disappoint me.
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Old 04-01-2010, 08:57 PM   #48
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What a great thread. Kudos to everyone for good advice and cool projects. I'd never tile outside (personal preference) but now I know plenty about it!
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Old 04-04-2010, 06:19 AM   #49
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Bud,

I don't want to even get into China made products, just pisses me off.

How can you tell your getting a better quality tile?

I forgot to ask a really important question though. In my quest to have my patio look better than plain concrete, I've bougth the Rustolium concrete stain/sealer kit. I can't say I can recomend it as it will peel off after a Nebraska winter, but my question is....most of it is still on the concrete with the sealer over the top of it.

Would I have to remove or do something to improve adheasion of the mastic? I had planned on using that new product that is Orange and comes in a roll. Can't think of the name of it, but it is supposed to act as a vapor barrier as well as a base to secure your tiles on.


Also, what kind of sealer did you use in the Hastings, NE project that you said was good.

Scott/Omaha
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Old 04-04-2010, 06:30 AM   #50
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installing Slate title to outdoor cement


Bud, chinese or indian ? personally its striking in appearance but that's just my eye,,, structurally, its all hat & no cattle,,, we've removed much even down her in ga - frost loosens it & it scales horribly,,, BUT - it does look pretty & its eye-catching at the apron store in fairness, IF it were sealed annually, the deterioration wouldn't be as severe & we'd have to wait longer for the work

just because Rustoleum's products didn't work for you doesn't mean they're not suitable for specific uses,,, again, we're back to the apron stores - they just need to sell product,,, far's the product itself, we'd never use it - we need to use pro stuff - stain, dye, or dry hybrid polymer-modified cementitious o'lays.

Happy Easter - hope everyone finds lots of eggs


ps - our own driveway entrance - just acid stain & aliphatic urethane seal
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Old 04-04-2010, 06:36 AM   #51
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Yea, it gets back to the "good, better, best" theory. I don't mind spending the extra money, and taking the time for proper prep as long as I can do it myself. I just didn't see any other concrete stain in the store that I could upgrade to.

I'be used their countertop paint for laminate surface and it seems to work and hold up pretty well.

But again, would I have to somehow remove the stain and whats left of the sealer before trying to adhere anything else down?
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Old 04-04-2010, 01:41 PM   #52
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Installing ceramic tile over any sealed concrete surface IS NOT recommended. The sealer should be mechanically removed by grinding or sandblasting or shot-blasting. The concrete MUST absorb a little water when splashed on the surface. If water beads-up that's no good.

The sealer I used was Impregnator 500 if I remember correctly.

Chinese, Indian, whatever, it was the stuff that is produced for the big box market. A better choice would be Vermont Slate that comes from the good ole U.S. As slates go, Vermont Slate is a more dense stone and not as likely to shed wafers. In addition...you can buy slate in two basic forms. Gauged and ungauged. The gauged would be the better choice as it will be consistent in size (thickness). The ungauged will vary considerably in thickness and would present the worse separation characteristics.

Porcelain tiles would be (in my opinion) the better choice of them all. Porcelain tiles are manufactured to mimic most all natural stones available and because of its very low moisture absorption (.05%) it is suitable for outdoor use in most climates.

Keep in mind any freeze/thaw climate is going to tax an outdoor tile installation.

I would further suggest you use an UNMODIFIED thinset mixed with a compatible additive to create a stronger bond to the substrate. Mapei's KeraBond thinset mixed with Keralastic additive for example.
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Old 04-04-2010, 08:33 PM   #53
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Bud, as always thank you for your advice.

Scott/Omaha
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Old 04-05-2010, 07:08 PM   #54
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