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Old 08-12-2008, 07:01 PM   #16
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installing Slate title to outdoor cement


Is your keyboard missing some keys or what?

Let's see if I got this right.

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i think pen argyl's probably the best
OK, does that have something to do with Pennsylvania?

What is "argyl's"?


Quote:
vt gives up a green
....and that has something to do with Vermont?

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va's slate's dark grey/black
Now we're talking about Virginia, is that correct?

Man those posts are hard to read and understand.

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Old 08-13-2008, 11:12 AM   #17
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pen argyl is a town in pennsylvania near where the slate deposit is located,,, vt = vermont ( fair haven's the area if i remember right ) & va's virginia - arvonia or rapidian areas.

apologies for the i-net shorthand
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Old 08-23-2008, 06:55 PM   #18
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installing Slate title to outdoor cement


My husband and I have dark gray slate chalkboard from an old school. We cut and installed 12x12" tiles in our entry way and I'm was curious about doing the same on our front stoop outside. The area is roughly 4x6' and we live in in the midwest where we get lots of cold weather. So my question is would this be a viable option for over our cement slab entry way with thinset or Mapei adhesive. I read all of the posts and I'm not sure - maybe this slate will be better than the new imported. It's got one side smooth and one side slate textured that was glued to the classroom wall. We like to recycle!

Thanks!
Amy
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Old 08-24-2008, 07:33 AM   #19
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installing Slate title to outdoor cement


Well, sure you can!...I don't think anyone has ever said you can't put slate in any place in your home, including bathroom shower stall or kjitchen countertops - it's just that some have seen examples where it was not suitable that makes them suggest something else. In this case, you've recylced a blackboard...well great! saves it from the rubbish heap....

Inside I don't see any problem but outside you may see some problems down the line. But who am I to say "it wasn't worth the cost" or "you paid too much" or whatever. But bear in mind that slate sometimes delaminates under water pressure, so protect the bottom and protect the top and see how long it lasts. It may last beyond the point where you still "like" it and figure it's a time for a change anyways. In that case, you're well ahead of the game!
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Old 07-12-2009, 09:08 PM   #20
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installing Slate title to outdoor cement


First, I want to thank Bud, Concrete and Carlyle for your comments. I WAS about to put down some (cheap) slate (from Lowe's) and was looking on this forum for a few answers. I will now go to the tile store and maybe get "good" slate, or go ceramic, or whatever you recommend. You guys obviously know your stuff! But, I still have the same the question I started out with, and I hope you guys can help me.

I'm putting down this tile (whatever I end up with) on my covered front porch 5' x 16'. I just spent ALL DAY anlge grinding it to get the 12 layers of paint off it and my back is killing me. The porch is made up of two slabs. So, in the middle I have a gap of about 5/8 inch with an expansion joint that is only half there and the other half has rotted away. (I'm going to try to add a photo).

Question 1 - How do I prepare that gap? Do I fill it with cement and tile over it, or what? Will that work?
Question 2 - Once that gap is prepared, am I ready to lay the tile, or is there some other prep that is required.
Question 3 - Since the porch is covered, and doesnt get much moisture, would the slate be ok?
Question 4 - What "slate looking" alternative would you recommend instead?

Thanks for any responses!
Steve
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Old 07-12-2009, 10:41 PM   #21
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installing Slate title to outdoor cement


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Question 1 - How do I prepare that gap? Do I fill it with cement and tile over it, or what? Will that work?
Under no circumstances do you want to tile over that gap. That expansion joint must be honored all the way through the tiles surface. Clean out the gap and then either fill it with an exterior caulk or some foam backer rod then caulk. The joint must be able to move with climatic changes.

The tile should have a grout joint at that location also. Only, don't use grout in that joint, use a grout-matching exterior caulk there also. The joint must remain flexible. There are also ready-made expansion joints available if you are interested in one of those.

Quote:
Question 2 - Once that gap is prepared, am I ready to lay the tile, or is there some other prep that is required.
You could lay tile at that point if your remaining slab isn't showing any cracks. There are also ready-made isolation membranes available if you so choose.

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Question 3 - Since the porch is covered, and doesn't get much moisture, would the slate be ok?
Slate is always iffy out doors in a freeze/thaw climate.

Quote:
Question 4 - What "slate looking" alternative would you recommend instead?
There are many porcelain tiles that mimic slate. Look around, most of them are fantastic and some have a "high-relief" that shows strong cleaves.
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Old 07-12-2009, 11:01 PM   #22
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installing Slate title to outdoor cement


Thanks for the reply, and excellent advice! Now, one really stupid question.... the joint for the tiles, sitting above the expansion joint...can the tile joint be 1/4 inch, or does it have to be the 5/8 to mirror the exansion joints width? I know, stupid question...but I'd believe either answer!

Oh yeah, one more question:

When I lay the vertical tiles, which will be touching the dirt (and therefor subject to lots of moisture, is there anything I should do, other than just laying the tile in?

Thanks again... and especially for the amazingly fast response!

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Old 07-12-2009, 11:14 PM   #23
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...question.... the joint for the tiles, sitting above the expansion joint...can the tile joint be 1/4 inch, or does it have to be the 5/8 to mirror the expansion joints width?
The joint in the tile can be the same as all the other grout joints. I know you don't want that one joint to stand out. You fudge that joint and it won't matter as long as the filler is flexible.

Quote:
When I lay the vertical tiles, which will be touching the dirt (and therefor subject to lots of moisture, is there anything I should do, other than just laying the tile in?
No problem there. I'll will tell about a small trick that I do. I backbutter the vertical tiles and I draw the grooves across the tile (top to bottom) so that they are definitely vertical. This way, if moisture should get behind the tile it will have an opportunity to drain. Your objective is to have 100% coverage with the thinset but that doesn't always happen. If the grooves are horizontal or on a funky curve they can trap water and freeze and that can pop a tile.
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Old 07-13-2009, 01:12 AM   #24
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installing Slate title to outdoor cement


WOW.

Thanks very much for the tips. I'll post a photo when complete.

Thanks again!
Steve
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Old 07-13-2009, 09:37 PM   #25
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installing Slate title to outdoor cement


slate doesn't have the strength to hold weight unsupported therefore don't 'hang' it over the edge or it'll chip off,,, when you're all done w/the job, SEAL IT to prevent water from penetrating the grout & eventually building up enough moisture to expand (ice) in lo temps thereby lifting all your very fine work off the substrate always a bummer to me BUT very profitable repairing it i like mixing some acrylic latex 'milk' into the mortar to 'tighten' up the jnts
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Old 07-13-2009, 10:56 PM   #26
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SS,

A 3/16" cantilever won't hurt a thing unless that micro-spot takes a direct-hit from something heavy and sharp. Don't worry about maintaining a 1/4" grout joint everywhere, you can do it safely.

Sealing grout DOES NOT waterproof it.

Adding additives to already modified grouts can wreck the chemistry of the product and yield the formula non-functional. Don't add anything to the grout if it is already fortified.

Last edited by Bud Cline; 07-13-2009 at 10:59 PM.
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Old 07-14-2009, 06:00 AM   #27
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installing Slate title to outdoor cement


bud & i rarely disagree & this is not the time for that,,, he's right & is advising someone who's not a practicing tradesman,,, i do it differently based on experience in atlanta/augusta.

so THERE, you big bully,,, happy you embarrassed me ? ? ?
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Old 07-14-2009, 08:40 AM   #28
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installing Slate title to outdoor cement


Sorry! Embarrassing someone wasn't my goal (this time) just wanted to reinforce the facts as I know them.
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Old 07-14-2009, 08:58 AM   #29
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installing Slate title to outdoor cement


thanks guys. Based on everything I've read and learned from you, I've decided to go with porcelain so that 3/16 in cantilever should be stronger anyway (right?).

Thanks again for all the help.
Steve
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Old 07-14-2009, 02:22 PM   #30
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installing Slate title to outdoor cement


bud, never any offense taken,,, many times i forget there are some who don't do this work for a living & i forget shortcuts.

stevie, be prepared for chips,,, i'd never cantilever anything so thin especially when it can be frozen & more susceptible to damage - even from shoes 'n' boots.

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