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installing Slate title to outdoor cement

65K views 53 replies 9 participants last post by  Bud Cline 
#1 · (Edited)
installing Slate tile over outdoor concrete patio

I've been assigned a outdoor project from my wife. It is very important that I do this right or my wife will be mad at me. We don't want that!

I have a 20' x 20' outdoor cement slab that I plan on covering with 12" x 12" slate tile. 16' x 16' of the patio is covered with a patio cover, stays dry year round

Here are my thoughts, let me know what you think.

1: use masonry cement to install, the slate tile to the cement slab.

2: use the masonry cement as a grout.

3: eliminate the need of a masonry grout and butt the tiles together.

4: install the tiles over the cement using sand. Paver method and lock the outer edge titles with masonry cement to keep the slate from shifting.

I don't know of an outdoor grout. I have only seen masonry cement used like a grout. I am concern about staining the slate with the masonry cement. I do plan on treating the surface of the slate prior to installing.

Let me know your thoughts or direct me how to do this project correctly. Of course the cement patio is not flat. That's why we selected slate tiles so the flatness is not a big concern.

Thanks for your time. Remember you will be saving my marriage by providing solid advice.
 
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#30 ·
bud, never any offense taken,,, many times i forget there are some who don't do this work for a living :wink: & i forget shortcuts.

stevie, be prepared for chips,,, i'd never cantilever anything so thin especially when it can be frozen & more susceptible to damage - even from shoes 'n' boots.
 
#32 ·
Hmmmm. Please clarify for me guys. Are you saying the cantilever idea is ok with slate, but not porcelain? I had concluded it was safer with porcelain.... Also, please note this area of the porch is seldom walked upon. In fact almost all of the porch us not walked upon, except for the area in front of the door.

Thanks,
Steve (not stevie).
 
#36 · (Edited)
Tile on Porch Project

Bud, no..you didn't skip anything. Before I ask my last stupid questions, let me say thanks once more. Your advice has been fantastic.

Ok, I'm posting a photo of the porch, with the tiles layed out (somewhat). My questions are:

Question 1- Considering that the porch is not square (why would it be?) at 57 3/4 on one end (the far end) and 57 1/4 on the near end, should I lay my tiles using the format in the photo (from the front edge back to the house - full tile on the front edge with tiles to be cut against the house), or should I lay the tiles "from the house" out to the front edge of the porch (like my dear wife believes I should). My wife's logic is, since you have to make so many cuts around the posts, why not make the the front edge the one with the short tiles and then have all full tiles against the house.

Question 2 - If I do lay the tile from the house out to the edge, and I don't plan to use bull nose, can I sand the corners of the tile to eliminate the sharp edge.

Question 3 - am I just fooling myself by not using bull nose?

Queston 4 (and final) - should I lay the vertical tiles on the face / front of the porch first, or last?

Thanks again!!!!
Steve
 

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#37 · (Edited)
I see you are putting a lot of thought into this, that's a good deal.

Here's what I would do.

I would definitely use bullnose. It will do two things for you. It will soften the edge and it will make the cuts around the posts more pleasing because it will help to break up how your eye perceives the overall installation. (Don't know if that makes any sense or not)

I would install the vertical tiles first. This way if the front edge of the porch is slightly off you can fudge the surface tiles (bullnose) just ever so slightly to help to hide any variance while overlapping those vertical tiles. Install the bullnose tiles completely. Then install the field tiles. I would cut to the house, this will hide that variance more or less.

I would do what had to be done to use full bullnose at the corner (start there) and lay it out dry to be sure there were no slivers that would fall around the posts. IF you have to move laterally to avoid a sliver at a post you can do so without drawing attention to the variance. Don't worry about the bullnose tiles hitting at different places in conjunction with the posts that is going to be unavoidable.

I would also try to position the bullnose so that the bullnose joints are swapped with the field tile joints, in both directions. This will separate the men from the boys I'll tell ya. It may not be totally possible but worth a try.:)

P.S. I would also till that soil around the porch so that it can be moved and compacted easily with your hands. This way it can be mounded where need it to support the vertical tiles overnight while the thinset dries.
 
#39 ·
Believe it or not, St. Louis is my home town. Born in Granite City when it was a world renowned steel town. Worked on the original I-270 bridge and the Gateway Arch when they were being built. Been on the old Admiral many times when it was an excursion boat. Used to take a train from Union Station in the days it was a real railroad station before it became a menagerie of shops. Worked on Lion Country at the zoo and went to the old Checkerdome when the St. Louis Blues were kings of the ice. Fished the Mississippi as a kid. Yup, I know a little about the old St. Louis area. White Castles and Steak 'n' Shakes. A-h-h-h-h, but I regress.:):):)
 
#40 · (Edited)
St. Louis

Just read your post (as we've been fretting and installing and fretting) for the last three days.

Wow! Those were very significant St. Louis projects. Well, the offer stands...if you make it to St. Louis, send me an advance email. Would gladly take you to dinner (not White Castle....but maybe Steak and Shake ...... since my daughter is a server there).

Thought you might like to see photos of the finished product. Not professional by any means, but we are proud of it for a first time effort. I must admit that I didn't take your advice about the bull nose. The tile we bought did not have any bull nose available and my wife and I could not agree on any sort of "accent" color, stye.

Nevertheless, we are very happy about how it turned out, and are very grateful for your tremendous guidance.

FYI, I cut under the posts with my angle grinder, and layed the tile underneath the moulding around them. If I was doing it over, I'd probably go the extra mile and replace the moulding (which is was my doing a few years ago and which I would have destroyed getting off since it's on there with nails and liquid nails and quad and every other darn thing I could think of at the time, to ensure moisture would not get to the posts).

Bud, best wishes to you!

steve.stansbery@yahoo.com

Steve.

PS. THANKS AGAIN!
 

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#43 · (Edited)
More Slate Questions for Bud

Bud,

GREAT looking slate tile over concrete in that picture. Was that done here in Nebraska?

I too live in Nebraska and want to do something similar on my 20X20 concrete pad. I've been to both HD and Menards asking about either using Slate or natural stone tiles. Frustration set in as I got opposing answers on either type of tile. I was even told I could use Porcelain tile as long as it's "grade" was a 5. I would prefer to use the stone tiles or slate is it looks better.

1. If there are types of slate(as far as where it's from) what do you recomend?

2. Can natural stone tiles be used?

3. I believe you said the quick set morter that Menards sells is the best for our harsh winters to use?

4. What brand/kind of sealer to use when project done, and how often should it be done as a maintenance thing.

Thanks for your help,

Scott Shaeffer
Omaha, NE
 
#44 ·
Scott, The tile pictured directly above is porcelain and it's in St. Louis Missouri. Not sure if your referring to those pictures or Bud's pictures of his amazing patio job) .

Bud and friends were a GREAT help to me on my project. I knew nothing when I started. I elected to go with porcelain, based on some of Bud's and others' posts, but my neighbors have had slate down for 5 years and no problems, except for some minor delamination.

Bud, thanks again for all the advice almost a year ago. You were a great help!

Steve
 
#46 ·
Hi Scott, thanks for the kind remarks, although my job looks like a cartoon in comparison to the work of art in Bud's picture. He is an amazing craftsman, obviously.

I purchased my tile at The Tile Store. They were reliable and helpful.

Best Wishes to you with your project. Once complete, please post a photo!

Steve
 
#47 ·
Yes the patio-slate installation is in Hastings Nebraska.

The customer bought that particular slate from Home Depot and it is the basic inexpesive chinese slate that is everywhere these days. I warned them about using the slate out doors but that's what they wanted to do.

Now, a few years later the patio is holding up fine for the most part. There has been some shedding of wafers as predicted and some iron oxidation (discoloring) coming from within the tile/slate.

My only regret on that job is that I used a high-dollar stone enhancer/sealer that worked much too well. The oxidation is being stimulated from below (my guess) but is also being sealed into the surface of the stone and you can't get to it to clean it without stripping off the sealer.

The customer thinks it's great and loves it, it adds charm, but the rust stains disappoint me.:)
 
#49 ·
Bud,

I don't want to even get into China made products, just pisses me off.

How can you tell your getting a better quality tile?

I forgot to ask a really important question though. In my quest to have my patio look better than plain concrete, I've bougth the Rustolium concrete stain/sealer kit. I can't say I can recomend it as it will peel off after a Nebraska winter, but my question is....most of it is still on the concrete with the sealer over the top of it.

Would I have to remove or do something to improve adheasion of the mastic? I had planned on using that new product that is Orange and comes in a roll. Can't think of the name of it, but it is supposed to act as a vapor barrier as well as a base to secure your tiles on.


Also, what kind of sealer did you use in the Hastings, NE project that you said was good.

Scott/Omaha
 
#50 ·
Bud, chinese or indian ? personally its striking in appearance but that's just my eye,,, structurally, its all hat & no cattle,,, we've removed much even down her in ga - frost loosens it & it scales horribly,,, BUT - it does look pretty & its eye-catching at the apron store :laughing: in fairness, IF it were sealed annually, the deterioration wouldn't be as severe & we'd have to wait longer for the work :furious:

just because Rustoleum's products didn't work for you doesn't mean they're not suitable for specific uses,,, again, we're back to the apron stores - they just need to sell product,,, far's the product itself, we'd never use it - we need to use pro stuff - stain, dye, or dry hybrid polymer-modified cementitious o'lays.

Happy Easter - hope everyone finds lots of eggs :thumbup:


ps - our own driveway entrance - just acid stain & aliphatic urethane seal
 

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#51 ·
Yea, it gets back to the "good, better, best" theory. I don't mind spending the extra money, and taking the time for proper prep as long as I can do it myself. I just didn't see any other concrete stain in the store that I could upgrade to.

I'be used their countertop paint for laminate surface and it seems to work and hold up pretty well.

But again, would I have to somehow remove the stain and whats left of the sealer before trying to adhere anything else down?
 
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