Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Flooring

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-23-2010, 08:48 AM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1
Share |
Default

Installing prefinished wood over concrete


I am installing prefinished wood flooring over concrete and I was told I could install a membrane or surface over the concrete and then glue the prefinished over that surface. Does anybody know what product or products are available and their application process so I will be able to estimate my job cost? I do not want to install directly to the existing concrete surface. I install raw wood flooring, sand and finish on a regular basis and try to avoid prefinished flooring but this job is for a friend and I want to install this floor without any problems. Thank you for your reply. Vince

Beaver Handyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 09:05 AM   #2
Experienced
 
Jackofall1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Southern Michigan
Posts: 2,822
Default

Installing prefinished wood over concrete


You can check out this site.

With the right subfloors, hardwood flooring can be installed successfully on either on-grade or above-ground slabs. Below-grade installation is not recommended.

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_bas...od_Floors.html

__________________
When its all said and done there is usually more said than done
Jackofall1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 09:35 AM   #3
Civil Engineer
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 4,182
Default

Installing prefinished wood over concrete


You may want to search this forum for hardwood flooring over concrete and read some of the horror stories about buckled hardwood, cupping, bad adhesion etc. Not saying it can't be done, but there are significant issues if the concrete has high water content, or is actively wicking water upwards.

There are techniques for measuring the moisture content of concrete. Personally I have never seen it done, however I have used moisture meters that claim they can be used on concrete. As for the barriers, if the concrete is actively transporting moisture, the barrier had best be nearly impermeable. I am curious what others on this forum have used, there are some here who appear to be quite knowledgeable who say flat out you should never put hardwood over concrete.
Daniel Holzman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 09:54 AM   #4
Pro Flooring Installer
 
rusty baker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: SW Missouri
Posts: 3,834
Default

Installing prefinished wood over concrete


I'm not a wood guy, but I've been told by numerous wood installers in the last 40 years, that wood should never be installed over concrete. I have also seen numerous failures thru the years.
__________________
The ads in my post are there without my permission. I do not endorse any of the products.
Semi-Retired Installer
Installing since 1973
rusty baker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 10:24 AM   #5
Experienced
 
Jackofall1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Southern Michigan
Posts: 2,822
Default

Installing prefinished wood over concrete


Quote - Daniel Holzman
"I am curious what others on this forum have used, there are some here who appear to be quite knowledgeable who say flat out you should never put hardwood over concrete."

I agree with Daniel, the link that I provided would certainly discourage further advancement on this thought process. The prep work for installation over slab on grade is arduous to say the least.

But if you do the prep I believe that it can be done.
__________________
When its all said and done there is usually more said than done
Jackofall1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 03:15 PM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 211
Default

Installing prefinished wood over concrete


I inspect a lot of floor failures with engineered over plank . forget about solid .
Most mills won't stand by there product if it is 3/4" solid .
You better have some really flat wood .
If height is not a factor you can do what we call a floating nail down . two layers of 3/4" ply
cut into 2x8 strips , scarfed on the back and the wood nailed to it .
You still need a moisture barrier . Also do CC tests . 3 for the first 1,000'
Floor Doc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2010, 12:50 PM   #7
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 21
Default

Installing prefinished wood over concrete


I used a product called Mapei Ultrabond 995 to glue down a prefinished 3/8" Brizilian Cherry hardwood to a concrete slab. This product is a two in one type product that was specifically designed to control moisture control without having to use two steps in the install. I bought the product from lumber liquators. I found it to be an excellent product, but it was expensive. When it dries, I would describe it to be similar to a thick latex or rubber type consistancy. About like the rubber on your car tires.
http://www.lumberliquidators.com/cat...tId=8249&nsa=1
Gulledge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2010, 01:28 PM   #8
Pro Flooring Installer
 
rusty baker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: SW Missouri
Posts: 3,834
Default

Installing prefinished wood over concrete


Most wood installers think liquid lumberdators is a joke.
__________________
The ads in my post are there without my permission. I do not endorse any of the products.
Semi-Retired Installer
Installing since 1973
rusty baker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2010, 01:32 PM   #9
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 21
Default

Installing prefinished wood over concrete


Why? What's wrong with them?
Gulledge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2010, 02:15 PM   #10
Pro Flooring Installer
 
rusty baker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: SW Missouri
Posts: 3,834
Default

Installing prefinished wood over concrete


Their wood products aren't very good and they don't stand behind it.
__________________
The ads in my post are there without my permission. I do not endorse any of the products.
Semi-Retired Installer
Installing since 1973
rusty baker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2010, 07:02 PM   #11
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 21
Default

Installing prefinished wood over concrete


Quote:
Originally Posted by rusty baker View Post
Their wood products aren't very good and they don't stand behind it.

I used their Bellawood Brizilian Cherry and found it to be excellent and exactly what I saw in their showroom. Each box contained a good variety of boards most with very good length. The finish looks great and the cuts were all good. The worst board I ran into was just slightly warped but I was still able to use it, and this was out of almost 1000 ft of flooring. Most hardwood flooring manufacters will tell you on their directions to account for about 5% waste due to some natural defects and cutting.

As far as them standing behind their products, they tell you on their receipt to examine all the boards and return any defect boards before installation. I'm wondering how many complaints are really due to installers, whether DIY or professional, who are not following the directions. For example proper sub floor prep., using the right adhesive, and so forth. You and others might have had some problems with LL, but I didn't.

Originally the poster just wanted ideas on products to provide moisture protection. I just happened to mention the product I used was from LL. He should make his own informed decision. I know this isn't a LL thred, but I would be interested in hearing specific examples of when LL wouldn't stand behind their products.
Gulledge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2010, 07:07 PM   #12
Pro Flooring Installer
 
rusty baker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: SW Missouri
Posts: 3,834
Default

Installing prefinished wood over concrete


http://www.complaintsboard.com/compl...rs-c52216.html


Read the ones on the bottom of the page, too and there are hundreds more on line.
http://lumber-liquidators.pissedcons...106166746.html
__________________
The ads in my post are there without my permission. I do not endorse any of the products.
Semi-Retired Installer
Installing since 1973

Last edited by rusty baker; 12-26-2010 at 07:11 PM.
rusty baker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2010, 01:00 AM   #13
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 21
Default

Installing prefinished wood over concrete


Rusty,

I appreciate the posts you made and read the complaints about Lumber Liquidators with interest. First off, I am not defending LL. I can only say that I found them to be a good experience and the Bellawood that I bought to be fine.
I think we can agree on the fact they may have a LIMITED warranty and may only follow their warranty policy. However, to anyone who takes the time to read and educate themselves about both the wood characteristics they are buying as well as LL warranty information, would save themselves alot of heartache. I think we, Americans, have been spoiled by a "Walmart" like return of no questions asked when something goes wrong. In many of the cases you referenced, the customer who made the complaint admits the LL warranty was not followed or the installation was not done by the directions for the application.

I was recently talking to a professional flooring installer, who happened to be picking up some Hardy Cement Board from Home Depot. I mentioned that I had just used some Hardy Board over a plywood subfloor to install some tile. I mentioned that I had applied Thinset under the Hardy Board per the directions. He mentioned that I could have used liquid nails instead. Well when I got home I happened to remember what he said and didn't remember seeing anything about that on the James Hardy site. After looking at this on the hardy board home page, it says Liquid Nails CAN NOT be used in this manner.

My point is, James Hardy and Home Depot shouldn't be held responsible if the tile or grout cracks. How many DIYers and professionals alike may think they have an acceptable alternative? The manufacters of products have detailed instructions that should be followed depending on the application, and the sellers of those products should have limited warranties to make sure the consumer has protections against defects in material and workmanship while at the same time protecting their business against installers who may not follow the directions or understand the characteristics of the material they are buying and their specific application.

For LL to "stand behind" a product when they are clearly not at fault may provide a credit toward going the extra mile in customer service, but it would also drive up the costs of their products by having to absorb unnecessary costs. This puts them at a disadvantage with regard to price, and could put them out of business. I am only giving my experience with LL which was fine. No business is perfect, but I think many people just don't want to admit we made a mistake, especially when we are talking about an expensive item as flooring.

In closing, in no way am I saying that you are not a professional installer. I just want to give a contrasting opinion for the readers of these posts can make an informed decision. Are you familiar with the Mapei Ultrabond 995 that I told the original poster about concerning his application? What do you think of it?

Last edited by Gulledge; 12-27-2010 at 01:02 AM.
Gulledge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2011, 09:24 AM   #14
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Clearwater, FL
Posts: 51
Default

Installing prefinished wood over concrete


Bumping back up.

BeaverHandyman/Vince - how did your installation go?

unlvrebel is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
installing shower pan on a concrete floor sv9779 Remodeling 19 03-13-2011 10:03 AM
How To Install Rigid Foam Insulation on Concrete earthad1 Building & Construction 9 10-26-2010 09:49 AM
Installing toilet on a concrete floor, Can't find a flange that will fit flush to the floor Pete R. Plumbing 1 10-09-2010 05:33 PM
mounting 4x4 wood post to concrete porch pshinaults Building & Construction 1 05-27-2010 02:53 PM
Insulate basement walls, 1/2 concrete / 1/2 wood frame rovers1973 Building & Construction 1 04-25-2010 05:50 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.