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-   -   Installing Porcelain tile, complete guide? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f5/installing-porcelain-tile-complete-guide-97492/)

Total Sugar 03-06-2011 10:27 PM

Installing Porcelain tile, complete guide?
 
I have been researching my newest project for a few days and have been stricken with multiple issues. I would like to start this project and document via pictures from beginning to end. There are SO many project posts regarding ceramic tile in the bathroom that I have come across. 90% of them stop half way and leave many readers scratching their head. Upon completion of this project, I will edit carefully and leave a sure guide for those who wish to undertake a similar project. I have become moderately proficient with Google SketchUp and will most definitely include them in this guide as well. Of course, I will seek the professional opinion of the many users here. However, there are a few stipulations.
The Tile Council Of North America is from what I've been told, the definitive source and "right way" to do things. If information pertaining to the install can be cited via the TCNA or another equally good source, that will prevent 3/4 of the forum from turning into a "Well in my 25 years of install I do it this way" and "You can do it that way but my dad who is an installer has been doing it like this for 15 years." Granted, this post will require editing to facilitate the ease of reading and transition from step to step. I plan to systematically evaluate each step.

Here are my dilemmas:
1. Whether it be Home Depot, Lowes or some other home improvement center, the advice I have been given varies in nature. I realize that there are multiple ways to do something but upon further investigation the majority of what I have been told has been flawed and incorrect. I have been told to use premixed cement, lay my tiles directly over plywood, disregard 1/8 gapping between subfloors, nails are cheaper than screws, tile on linoleum, don't thinset cement board over underlayment-just screw it, the most expensive thin set is the best, and the list goes on.
2. Various internet forums are plagued with individuals hired by companies to promote their line of products or their method of installation without correct citation of a definitive source. I was told just the other day to install Ditra directly over my sub-floor and everything will be okay.
3. There is extensive errata in many DIY books located in the various home improvement stores that conflicts with various code.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-W.../bathroom2.jpg
Situation:
I have roughly an eight foot by seven foot second story bathroom. Exact flooring dimensions will follow upon removal of floor. The flooring needs to be replaced. I am going to tile it with porcelain tile. The project has not yet started due to me being in the plan phase. I will not start the project until I feel comfortable with my plan. There are multiple fixtures on the floor to include a vanity, a toilet, and a radiator. The bath tub was previously installed and is not going to be removed nor is a present variable in this project. The floor is VERY uneven. It is going to be necessary to remove all current flooring and subflooring and reconfigure the joists. This leads me into question #1.

Question 1: Subflooring and Joist Repair Material Plan
Given the route of the floor's unevenness and upon investigation of the joists in the room directly under the bathroom; I have joists that are out of plane. It has been recommended to find the lowest joist and:
1. Take a belt sander and make them all even with a 4 foot level.
or
2. Take a joist of an unknown dimension and 12 inches from the walls attach it. Sister the joists with screws and glue. Repeat this procedure on ALL joists.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-K...1600/JOIST.jpg

Upon Establishment of "same plane joists" that are perfectly even, 16 inches spaced, install:
1. Install Huber Advantech 23/32 x 4 x 8 T&G OSB $23.97 via screw and construction adhesive to manufacture's recommended standards.
or
2. Install 23/32 x 4 x 8 T&G OSB $12.47 via screws and construction adhesive to manufacture's recommended standards.
or
3. Install 7/16 x 4 x 8 OSB $6.97 via screws and construction adhesive to manufacture's recommended standards.
or
4. Install 3/4 x 4 x 8 Oak Hardwood Plywood $44.97 via screws and construction adhesive to manufacture's recommended standards.

Ancillaries:
Adhesives
1. Titebond 28 Oz. Interior/Exterior Subfloor Construction Adhesive $5.75
or
2. Liquid Nails 10 Oz. Int./Ext HeavyDuty Construction Adhesive $2.54
or
3. Loctite PL Premium 28 oz. Polyurethane Construction Adhesive $6.99

Install
1. 1/8 inch, stagger corners
or
2. No gap, stagger corners
or
3. 1/2 inch gap, don't stagger corners

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-i...tsSubfloor.png

Upon installation of the subfloor, install an underlayment:
Upon correct installation of subfloor is it necessary to install an underlayment?
1. Don't bother, install cement board.
or
2. Install Plytanium 3/8 x 4 x 8 Plywood Sheathin $11.97 over the subfloor.
or
3. Install Plytanium 15/32 x 4 x 8 3-Ply CAT Plywood Sheathing $13.96over the subfloor.
or
4.19/32 x 4 x 8 SE OSB Sheathing $10.97 over the subfloor.

Ancillaries:
Securing
1. Glue and Screw
or
2. Glue
or
3. Screw

*Assume same glue and screw product from subfloor installation.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-v...oorinstall.jpg

This is where I will stop. Upon correct planning in ever dimension I will proceed to cementboard or whatever comes next.

bluebird5 03-06-2011 10:51 PM

thats too much to read. what are your questions? (without writing a novel)

Total Sugar 03-06-2011 10:56 PM

internet filled w/trite, bad advice. ploy for change and simplicity. Short enough?:thumbsup:

JazMan 03-07-2011 08:37 PM

The internet can be a wonderful tool, I love it. It can also be very dangerous on several levels. Anonymity and every wana-be can easily give an answer that often sounds logical. That is dangerous.

Most of those nice people at the box store have no clue. They are told to be there with no training and less experience. Their employers could care less if your project if successful or not. In the 20 + years we've had these store here I have run into one person who actually knew a fair amount about tile installation. He was a tile setter, he lasted about 2 months.

Start with the joists. I recommend sistering to make the floor flat and as level as practical. I recommend glue and bolts. 1/2" or thicker lag bolts, washers nuts. Verify the joists meet L360 deflection criteria.

Install 3/4" t&g plywood subfloor. PL and screwed to joists. No drywall screws of course. Gaps? Follow manufacturer's instruction as most have a built-in spacing system designed in the t&g.

This is good enough as the base for porcelain tile installation over your favorite concrete backer or membrane. You can add more ply of course, min. 3/8". The more the better. Always glue the subfloor to the joists. You should NOT glue underlayment to the subfloor.

The specs in the TCNA are like the "bible" of installations. However, any manufacture's instructions trump the TCNA's specs.

Enough for now otherwise you'll have to give me your Pay-Pal account number.:yes:

Jaz

Bud Cline 03-07-2011 09:10 PM

What's with all the pricing?
Graphics are too big and make the page difficult to read. (scrolling scrolling scrolling)

:yes:Take it Jaz!:) This one's yore's my man.:) That'll teach you to go on a cruise.:yes::laughing:

JazMan 03-07-2011 09:22 PM

Damn......wish I was still there! Thanks alot man. :huh:


Jaz :thumbup::boat:


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