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Old 05-22-2014, 10:32 AM   #1
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Installing Hardwood floors!


Hello,
Getting ready to do the hardwood floors. The current plan is to install new white oak unfinished hardwoods in the kitchen and the hallway. The hallway I had to rip up due to adhesive and damage. I will then have the existing floors (living room, dining room, bedrooms) sanded. We are going to stain all the floors and then have everything poly'd.

Kind of doing everything a little backwards because of a pregnant wife and child. We have to get into the place sooner than later.

Couple of questions that popped up as I was thinking about this.

The old flooring went throught the living room, through the hallway and through the dining room. I cut out the hallway...I cut it thought the entry way into the dining room, living room. Should I lay a peice of oak perpendicular to those rooms then have the hallway go the same direction as the living room, dining room? Will that look ok? It seems easier than featheriing it in.

what typically goes under the hardwoods. Rosin paper?

Any other tips or tricks to lay it out or have a good finished product. I have done a lot but never installed hardwoods.

thanks!!!!

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Old 05-22-2014, 05:17 PM   #2
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Installing Hardwood floors!


Pix would be nice but if I understand correctly, put a strip perpendicular to those two rooms and start your first course so that if you stand in one room and lock across hall to the other they both appear to line up. And yes, red rosin is tidally placed beneath hardwood floors. Ron

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Old 05-22-2014, 09:27 PM   #3
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Installing Hardwood floors!


Hi bfan,

I recommend #15 felt paper as do most hardwood manufacturers that I know of. Some like to use #30. Both are moisture retarders to help slow down moisture/vapor from entering the floor from below. They also help reduce sound and make installation easier cuz you can slide the planks into place easier.

Red Rosin does nothing to reduce moisture intrusion. It's usually used to protect the finished floor after installation while work continues.

You should be able to find recommendations in the bundle or manufacturer's website. Be sure to overlap the paper by at least 4".

Here is some info from the National Wood Flooring Association, (NWFA)

Some examples of acceptable vapor retarders over wood subfloors include:
1. An asphalt laminated paper meeting UU-B-790a, Grade B, Type I, Style 1a.
2. Asphalt-saturated kraft paper or #15 or #30 felt paper meeting ASTM Standard D-4869 or UU-B-790, Grade D.


4. Do not use common red rosin or building paper which is not asphalt saturated. They are not vapor retarders as their perm rating is far greater than 50.

There's lots more info, but first read the directions that come with what you're using.

Jaz
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Old 05-28-2014, 04:06 PM   #4
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Installing Hardwood floors!


Great thanks for the tip. I'll go with what the manufacture recommends.

Is it a good idea before the hardwoods go in to add additional screws to fasten the subfloor to the joists? They don't squeak to much at all but since we plan to be here for a while I think that now is the time to do it if it is recommended.

Anyone have any feedback good or bad about using hardwoods from lumber liquidators? I hear mostly bad but looks for more info. I believe it's colston select 2 1/4 white oak.
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Old 05-28-2014, 09:25 PM   #5
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Quote:
Great thanks for the tip. I'll go with what the manufacture recommends.
That's always a smart move.

Quote:
Is it a good idea before the hardwoods go in to add additional screws to fasten the subfloor to the joists?
That's always a smart move.

I've only had one personal experience with LL and it wasn't a good one. I dislike companies that advertise by using bait & switch tactics. I've heard of people receiving bad quality boards beyond the 5% limit. Actual milling errors.

As for your selection. Well, oak strip, the very basic type of wood flooring. I recommend you take a look at something wider and a harder species of wood.

Jaz
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Old 05-29-2014, 08:14 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by JazMan View Post
Hi bfan,

I recommend #15 felt paper as do most hardwood manufacturers that I know of. Some like to use #30. Both are moisture retarders to help slow down moisture/vapor from entering the floor from below. They also help reduce sound and make installation easier cuz you can slide the planks into place easier.

Red Rosin does nothing to reduce moisture intrusion. It's usually used to protect the finished floor after installation while work continues.

You should be able to find recommendations in the bundle or manufacturer's website. Be sure to overlap the paper by at least 4".

Here is some info from the National Wood Flooring Association, (NWFA)

Some examples of acceptable vapor retarders over wood subfloors include:
1. An asphalt laminated paper meeting UU-B-790a, Grade B, Type I, Style 1a.
2. Asphalt-saturated kraft paper or #15 or #30 felt paper meeting ASTM Standard D-4869 or UU-B-790, Grade D.


4. Do not use common red rosin or building paper which is not asphalt saturated. They are not vapor retarders as their perm rating is far greater than 50.

There's lots more info, but first read the directions that come with what you're using.

Jaz
If the building is constructed properly, there will not be a need for a vapor barrier beneath the flooring as the vapor barrier will already be in place in the basement ceiling insulation. And despite what the hardwood mfgr says, if a vapor barrier is needed I would not want that much tar paper inside my home giving off volatiles. Ron
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Old 05-30-2014, 10:19 AM   #7
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Installing Hardwood floors!


Thanks for sharing such nice information with respect for the installation of the Hardwood floors.
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Old 06-06-2014, 10:54 AM   #8
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Installing Hardwood floors!


OK..So I have the flooring, underlayment recommended and I am picking up the nailer tomorrow.

I have been watching video's and researching and I am ready to get moving. A few simple/general questions to make sure I do it correctly.

1.What nails are recommended for 3/4" white oak 2 1/4 hardwood..unfinished?

2. It seems to nail about every 6" not too close to the ends. I plan to leave a gap around the edges that will be concealed with the baseboards.

3. to join to adjacent rooms I need to place a few perpendicular pieces. Anyone have any good methods to cut the same floor as straight and accurate as possible. Currently i plan to use a skil saw with a guide board screws to the area where the floor isn't yet but will be. The use a sharpe chisel to get into the area the saw won't fit. Open for other ideas...

4. Lastly, how do the professionals fasten the boards that the nailer can't get? I want to avoid face nailing. Will construction adhesive do the trick.

Thanks Guys
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Old 06-06-2014, 09:44 PM   #9
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1. Ask what is recommended for the nailer.

3. That is what I would do.....but might substitute an oscillating saw for the chisel if you have one.

4. Since you said "underlayment", I would cut it at away at any point that you want to glue boards down.....else you will be sling to the underlayment which is not securely attached to anything. For the boards that the floor nailer won't reach, I've used a finish gun with 2 1/2" nails to nail right through the tongue just like the flooring gun.q. You can then face nail the last board.

Ron
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Old 06-09-2014, 09:18 AM   #10
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Installing Hardwood floors!


Moving forward on this project... As I mentioned earlier.. The rooms with the existing hardwoods are running length wise perpendicular to the joists. I am adding the hardwoods to the hallway. (same material) I would like to add a transition peice of two boards going across the threshold connecting the two spaces.

So basically to visualize better, the hallway and the living room and dining room will be all going in the same direction, since the dining room and living room are already installed, along those two thresholds, I plan to put two boards perpendicular to the rest.

My question is. Will I run into problems not leaving that expansion gap on that side?
The other end of the hallway will have the gap, but where it joins with the transition piece and into the existing room will not have a gap on that side.
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Old 06-09-2014, 08:20 PM   #11
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Installing Hardwood floors!


Quote:
Originally Posted by bfan781 View Post
Moving forward on this project... As I mentioned earlier.. The rooms with the existing hardwoods are running length wise perpendicular to the joists. I am adding the hardwoods to the hallway. (same material) I would like to add a transition peice of two boards going across the threshold connecting the two spaces.

So basically to visualize better, the hallway and the living room and dining room will be all going in the same direction, since the dining room and living room are already installed, along those two thresholds, I plan to put two boards perpendicular to the rest.

My question is. Will I run into problems not leaving that expansion gap on that side?
The other end of the hallway will have the gap, but where it joins with the transition piece and into the existing room will not have a gap on that side.


Biggest part of expansion is across the grain, very little with the grain.
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Old 06-09-2014, 09:15 PM   #12
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What you are thinking of is done every day. No worries. Wood ends, contracts, etc. in my house, tongue and groove red oak installed super tight many years back opens up to 1/16 to 1/8 over the winter when we are heating with wood. Back to super tight in summer! Ron
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Old 07-09-2014, 12:46 AM   #13
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OP - can you post what brand of flooring you went with, and what you think of it?

(I posted this before I had read the entire thread, to respond to one of OP's early posts. I thought I'd leave it up in case anyone else is thinking of the LL Colston unfinished white oak.)

I was just at Lumber Liquidators looking at their Colston Unfinished White Oak - well, to the extent they would let me look at it. I personally am not all that impressed by LL (never bought flooring there but don't like the quality I see in the showroom, or reviews online), but thought I'd take a look since I was looking at unfinished oak.

I was looking at wider widths (4" or 5"). Those apparently won't be in stock for months to a year, so I looked at their "natural" grade. They wouldn't allow me to open a box, but they were open on one side so I could get an idea of the lengths. There were a lot of short pieces - they told me it's random pack but all the boxes I looked at had a lot of 1 -3 foot long pieces. (They told me it wouldn't be much better with the select). I was able to pull 2 pieces out from the end & one of them had an imperfection on the face (not a knot but about a 1" long break in the wood). They also didn't have much in stock & didn't know when/if they'd be getting more.

I wasn't terribly impressed. This wasn't "select" but they also told me there wouldn't be much improvement with the "select". It was also a fairly dark oak. I should have asked to see some of their narrower width "select", just to compare.

The box said "Product of the USA" - if that means it comes from managed forests in the US, great. I'm not sure if they could label it that way if they imported the wood then milled it in the US.

They told me you cannot return an open box. The LL product is cheaper than many, but I don't think you're getting as good a product. It depends on what you want. I'd search the internet for reviews, too. Before you buy, try to peer as much as possible at the unopened cases you're getting. I'm looking at alternative options; I need only about 16 sq feet for a stair landing (stairs turn 90 degrees here). I cannot stand any bevel and don't want prefinished, so I'm not finding what I need at any chain store. I'll be calling a few hardwood flooring stores to see what the options there are. It will be more expensive, I'm sure.


Last edited by lazzlazz; 07-09-2014 at 12:49 AM.
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