Installers Glued when they were supposed to Float!

ajdepaul · 11-02-2011, 10:15 PM

You know what is really messed up? I originally went to the dealer with the intention of ripping the wood out. I commented that it was a shame to tear out the wood and I wish I could keep it and he suggested the floating floor. It sounds like that should never have been an option.

Bud Cline · 11-02-2011, 10:26 PM

It's amazing. Believe it or not I see these local flooring store operators eat tens of thousands of dollars worth of mistakes every year. It amazes me how they stay in business. And it is all because they are so greedy they had rather eat a few jobs and swap that for speed and extra sales rather than learn about the products and proper installation techniques and the science of all this crap.

Damn the customers full speed ahead.

ajdepaul · 11-03-2011, 02:47 PM

OK. So here is what the owner of the company is proposing. I can't tell if this is good or bad or what I should ask.

Regarding your floors: based on what I now know, the installation was not done according to our agreement and as a result, I will need to make an adjustment to you for the costs involved with the underlayment and the refinishing of the floors. Please note: If this were a single layer strip floor, it would have required an underlayment in order to meet the manufacturer's installation recommendations. That being said, direct glue down installation is an acceptable installation over a double layer floor so I will provide you a written lifetime warranty which will include grout maintenance on this floor. In addition, I will give you a refund for the cost of refinishing your hardwood floors or I will offer a coupon to you that will entitle you to have your floors refinished at a later date. One other point that is noteworthy; one of the rubs on floating floors is the increased grout maintenance. We generally recommend a direct adhesive installation method because it is more stable. In your case you wanted to preserve the hardwood flooring so a floating floor made more sense, but to be fair, a floating floor would have caused at least as much grout maintenance.

Help is once again greatly appreciated

Bud Cline · 11-03-2011, 05:03 PM

I assume based on the manner in which you have presented the stores comments here that you have received those comments in writing, is that correct? If so, enshrine those documents.

Since the new floor is already failing I think right now is the time to have this guy take out the new floor and re-finish the old floor. I personally doubt it can be done. But to accept an IOU for a future repair from this outfit is going to leave you standing at the gate when the bell sounds.

Get it all fixed here and now and be made whole again and then after that if you want to install another new floor you will be much wiser.

rusty baker · 11-03-2011, 05:29 PM

That warranty won't be worth much when this guy goes out of business.

Bud Cline · 11-03-2011, 05:44 PM

Quote:

That warranty won't be worth much when this guy goes out of business.

Exactly correct. It's now or never.

ajdepaul · 11-03-2011, 06:14 PM

My other option is to accept compensation for the refinishing to the tune of 1.50/sq ft for removal and 1.50/sq ft for refinishing.
And yes it is in writing and would be formalized upon agreement.

mrs fix it · 11-03-2011, 06:27 PM

That sounds quite low? I'm no expert on this but I wouldn't necessarily go with that bid. I would also make sure that the company that installed this and that glued your floors does not re-do this work

Bud Cline · 11-03-2011, 06:34 PM

Quote:

My other option is to accept compensation for the refinishing to the tune of 1.50/sq ft for removal and 1.50/sq ft for refinishing.

And whom are you going to get to do the job for those prices in the future? Those prices wouldn't work today. I'm going to say it one more time then I'll drop the subject. Those wood floors aren't going to be refinishable. I'm sure of it. I have worked with too much of that adhesive - the wood floor is ruined and the store knows that.

Call three different wood floor refinishers in your area. Show them your floor and have them quote you to remove the Duraceramic and refinish the floor below it. Only then will you know what (today's) costs are. Then add an additional 40% to the cost for your trouble. See if he agrees to that amount for a settlement. Don't forget to add taxes for any new products you must purchase.

AlbacoreShuffle · 11-03-2011, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajdepaul

OK. So here is what the owner of the company is proposing. I can't tell if this is good or bad or what I should ask.

Regarding your floors: based on what I now know, the installation was not done according to our agreement and as a result, I will need to make an adjustment to you for the costs involved with the underlayment and the refinishing of the floors. Please note: If this were a single layer strip floor, it would have required an underlayment in order to meet the manufacturer's installation recommendations. That being said, direct glue down installation is an acceptable installation over a double layer floor so I will provide you a written lifetime warranty which will include grout maintenance on this floor. In addition, I will give you a refund for the cost of refinishing your hardwood floors or I will offer a coupon to you that will entitle you to have your floors refinished at a later date. One other point that is noteworthy; one of the rubs on floating floors is the increased grout maintenance. We generally recommend a direct adhesive installation method because it is more stable. In your case you wanted to preserve the hardwood flooring so a floating floor made more sense, but to be fair, a floating floor would have caused at least as much grout maintenance.

Help is once again greatly appreciated

This is a clear breach of contract, and you will win this case hands down !
I would ask for the original floors ( hard wood ) to be repaired or replaced , and the tile job to been done correctly or a full refund of the cost of the tile + repair of the floors.
The contractor you purchase the floors through should have insurance to cover his Azz.
He will pass his lost $$ onto the sub that didn't follow the contract.

I'm speaking with over 20 years as a licensed contractor, We win some and Loose some, all part of doing business.

HarryJ · 11-04-2011, 06:00 PM

Wow ! this was all an exciting read. I have been a licenced installer for 25 yrs and a store owner for almost 20 yrs. My heart goes out to the store you've dealt with over this tragedy but well..... "s..t" happens. the only fix that works for the customer in my opinion is the removal of both floors and the re-install of new hardwood at no cost whatsoever to the customer. If the customer wants to accept a buyout thats her choice but with a faulty installation no amount of warranty makes any sense. The problem will linger on and on and on and on......

Bud Cline · 11-04-2011, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Harryj: "Wow ! this was all an exciting read. I have been a licenced installer for 25 yrs and a store owner for almost 20 yrs. My heart goes out to the store you've dealt with over this tragedy but well..... "s..t" happens. the only fix that works for the customer in my opinion is the removal of both floors and the re-install of new hardwood at no cost whatsoever to the customer. If the customer wants to accept a buyout thats her choice but with a faulty installation no amount of warranty makes any sense. The problem will linger on and on and on and on......"

That statement right there pretty well sums up this fiasco. You can take that information to the bank.

ajdepaul · 11-08-2011, 09:19 AM

This is all great info. I am appreciative of the help everyone has offered.

That being said I am still torn as to what I should do. It sounds like the wood is ruined. I think their proposal of a dollar something to compensate for refinishing is way on the low side. I think the only true way to make things right is to tear everything out and start over but I am not sure I want that construction in my house for weeks to come. If I accept compensation and these floors turn out to be a major hassle we will probably eat up that compensation in no time and will have to front money to get new floors sooner than we probably think.

What are your thoughts in holding off this whole scenario until after winter to see how our floors react to the extreme cold and subsequent warming? We might get a better idea of how bad the floors will be after seeing a full seasonal cycle.

Sephora · 11-08-2011, 09:42 AM

Ask for more money to do the floors correctly or take them to claims court.

Msradell · 11-08-2011, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajdepaul

What are your thoughts in holding off this whole scenario until after winter to see how our floors react to the extreme cold and subsequent warming? We might get a better idea of how bad the floors will be after seeing a full seasonal cycle.

By doing this are only going to be able to see if you have problems living with the tiles you presently have. It is not going to correct nor compensate you for the fact they didn't do what the contract said they would! You will certainly answer the short term questions but the long-term problems and costs still remain. You should start legal proceedings now because they're going to take forever and I'm sure the work to make everything right won't be done for a long time no matter what.