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-   -   How much subfloor? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f5/how-much-subfloor-166529/)

bluefoxicy 12-15-2012 01:42 PM

How much subfloor?
 
Okay, I'm working on getting a tile floor down, still planning.

I yanked off the molding today in the kitchen to see what I've got. I found a number of things.

First, the walls butt the drywall down against the subfloor. Is it okay to build up the additional subfloor around the drywall, rather than cutting drywall and building floor under it? This is subfloor to support tile and granite counter top. I've never done this in particular; I imagine the walls won't be getting any heavier.

I'm building out a 30 inch height wall across most of the entrance, leaving a 30 inch wide entrance. This will supply a backing for additional cabinets and support for a counter top. Behind this will be stools, so the counter top will act as a table. Something in this spirit, although most certainly not in this style. Should I build the subfloor first, and then the new wall on top? Or build the wall and then cut the plywood to go around it?


Second, the linoleum tile I'm taking up is 1/8 inch; there is a 1/8 inch thin wood board underneath, not subfloor material, stapled down that needs to be taken up as well. That's another 1/4 inch. There's a 2 3/16 inch drop total at the rear door. I was thinking the tile + 1/4 hardiebacker + mortar would come to around 3/4, leaving 1 7/16. There's a 3/4 inch round molding piece at the door, leaving 11/16 or 22/32.

I guess a 23/32 plywood subfloor layer is appropriate? I should just make it.... or I can pick a narrower molding than 3/4 inch for the bottom round, I guess. The floor is stable enough for tile--I brought the tile and mortar in and stacked it up in a pile on the kitchen floor, it held--but more plywood is always structurally better.

This floor is going to extend into the living room, where it will support hardwood instead of tile. I'm going to use screws in the groove instead of nails... the floor's going to support a piano, but that only weighs 200 pounds. I'm more concerned about the full stainless steel refrigerator on a smaller footprint.

Too much information?

JetSwet 12-16-2012 09:06 AM

What is your joist specs? Size, span & whats holding the them up. Yes take luon out.

bluefoxicy 12-16-2012 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetSwet (Post 1073932)
What is your joist specs? Size, span & whats holding the them up.

Joists are 20 inches center-to-center spanning 15 feet. The wood holding up the floor is new pine 2x8 secured in place by sistering to old pine 2x10 which is pocketed in cinder block basement foundational wall. There's a mix of OSB and plywood around the subfloor, which near as I can tell is all plywood in the kitchen and the bottom layer is OSB at the front living room; near as I can tell the first layer looks 5/8 but I haven't measured and my judge of size is crap. No clue what's the second layer.

Quote:

Yes take luon out.
I'm not entirely sure how to interpret this. First I had to Google "Luon", which leads me to "Luan" or "Luon" (not sure, Google suggests Luan and a lot of people say Luon), which I'm unclear on if it's drywall or plywood. If you're referencing the wall I guess you mean to cut out drywall and slide the subfloor under; otherwise I'm not sure what I'm supposed to take out?


:huh::huh::huh::huh::huh:

JetSwet 12-16-2012 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluefoxicy (Post 1074036)

Joists are 20 inches center-to-center spanning 15 feet. The wood holding up the floor is new pine 2x8 secured in place by sistering to old pine 2x10 which is pocketed in cinder block basement foundational wall. There's a mix of OSB and plywood around the subfloor, which near as I can tell is all plywood in the kitchen and the bottom layer is OSB at the front living room; near as I can tell the first layer looks 5/8 but I haven't measured and my judge of size is crap. No clue what's the second layer.

I'm not entirely sure how to interpret this. First I had to Google "Luon", which leads me to "Luan" or "Luon" (not sure, Google suggests Luan and a lot of people say Luon), which I'm unclear on if it's drywall or plywood. If you're referencing the wall I guess you mean to cut out drywall and slide the subfloor under; otherwise I'm not sure what I'm supposed to take out?

:huh::huh::huh::huh::huh:

1/8" of plywood you stated is or most likly luon that the linoliuom is on needs to come out.

bluefoxicy 12-16-2012 12:04 PM

ah so that's what that stuff's called.

Yeah I'm going to tear that up. Gives me a bit more room, but if my subfloor needs to be stiffer I don't have room for more than 3/4 of subfloor I think. The only option is the half-inch maple 4x8 sheets they have, which I don't think is for subfloor... (hard as stone though, deflection is like zero). $50 instead of $30 and no clue if thinset bonds to sanded closed-cell wood.

Hell I should buy a sheet and make a bunch of cutting boards. If they're untreated, they're fit for food.

JazMan 12-16-2012 12:32 PM

Hi guys,

Jet meant to say Luaun, aka luan, and linoleum. :wink:

Luaun ply used as underlayment is normally about 5.5 mm thick not 1/8". Take it up and hammer down the staples.

Your joists are 19.2" o.c. and if they're Southern Pine #2 by just met the min. specs at 14' 8". Which is why you sistered them.:thumbsup:

I'm still not sure what your present subfloor consists of, maybe I missed it. That will influence my answer to whether you need 3/4" underlayment, usually it's not needed to be that thick.

I don't get your plan with that 30" high wall to butt to the base cabinets, etc. Mainly because cabinets are 36" high plus counter should be higher if used as a snack bar with stools.

Screws into the tongue of hardwood instead of staples or cleats. Why the heck would you wanna do that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluefoxiccy
Too much information?

Yes, too much in a single post. Need to start at the beginning which is framing and subfloor.

Jaz

JetSwet 12-16-2012 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluefoxicy (Post 1074056)
ah so that's what that stuff's called.

Yeah I'm going to tear that up. Gives me a bit more room, but if my subfloor needs to be stiffer I don't have room for more than 3/4 of subfloor I think. The only option is the half-inch maple 4x8 sheets they have, which I don't think is for subfloor... (hard as stone though, deflection is like zero). $50 instead of $30 and no clue if thinset bonds to sanded closed-cell wood.

Hell I should buy a sheet and make a bunch of cutting boards. If they're untreated, they're fit for food.

You can use ditra instead of cbu board and add 1/2" ply. As well as x bracing the joists, sistering or cating the joist are options as well.

bluefoxicy 12-16-2012 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazMan (Post 1074078)
Screws into the tongue of hardwood instead of staples or cleats. Why the heck would you wanna do that?

Jaz

The normal way is nails with a nailer that uses pneumatic pressure or .22 cartridges. Who uses staples?

JazMan 12-16-2012 01:23 PM

I use cleats, but many pros use staples. http://www.google.com/imgres?q=hardw...9,r:3,s:0,i:99
Jaz

bluefoxicy 12-16-2012 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazMan (Post 1074119)
I use cleats, but many pros use staples.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTPOKH9hdrc

This is what I was thinking.

JetSwet 12-17-2012 09:51 PM

I know it doesnt take much to get me lost but how did tiling turn into puting hardwood down? Lol

bluefoxicy 12-17-2012 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetSwet (Post 1074949)
I know it doesnt take much to get me lost but how did tiling turn into puting hardwood down? Lol

The rooms are adjacent. One transitions into the other.

I'm still trying to figure out this thing with the counter elevated above 36" for stools. At 36" a normal chair is too low, I need an elevated chair. A normal table seems to be 28-29 inches high.

Seriously this went from building a floor to building an island to building a wall to building a permanent table-like fixture and running plumbing and vacuum ductwork and electricity.

JetSwet 12-17-2012 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluefoxicy (Post 1074952)

The rooms are adjacent. One transitions into the other.

I'm still trying to figure out this thing with the counter elevated above 36" for stools. At 36" a normal chair is too low, I need an elevated chair. A normal table seems to be 28-29 inches high.

Seriously this went from building a floor to building an island to building a wall to building a permanent table-like fixture and running plumbing and vacuum ductwork and electricity.

Oh gotcha. Your counter is going to be higher then a table so yes stools or bar chairs. 36" sounds fine for counter hight but you also want to have enough space between counter and cabniets and you also dont want cabniets to close to ceiling.

bluefoxicy 12-17-2012 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetSwet (Post 1074968)
Oh gotcha. Your counter is going to be higher then a table so yes stools or bar chairs. 36" sounds fine for counter hight but you also want to have enough space between counter and cabniets and you also dont want cabniets to close to ceiling.

... wait, I can hang additional cabinets above this?

The kitchen will have the left wall cut down to 36", then extended across. After taking up the luan and linoleum and whatnot. Running vacuum, electric, water, and drain through the wall. Then additional subfloor goes down, tile floor goes down, new cabinets go in, refrigerator goes on the right side, dishwasher goes under the new counter.

Hmm... additional overhead cabinets, you say? That's an idea...

JetSwet 12-18-2012 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluefoxicy (Post 1074977)

... wait, I can hang additional cabinets above this?

The kitchen will have the left wall cut down to 36", then extended across. After taking up the luan and linoleum and whatnot. Running vacuum, electric, water, and drain through the wall. Then additional subfloor goes down, tile floor goes down, new cabinets go in, refrigerator goes on the right side, dishwasher goes under the new counter.

Hmm... additional overhead cabinets, you say? That's an idea...

Post some pics up


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