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Old 05-07-2014, 12:25 PM   #1
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How much height does adhesive add?


This may be a stupid question but how much height would adhesive add to the engineered hardwood install? I'm trying to raise the sub-floor with a 3/8" plywood to make the hardwood and marble tile be the same exact height for the door transitions to all bathrooms. I purchased a sheet of 3/8 ply to test it out and without the adhesive the hardwood and tile are the same exact height. Should I be worried that the adhesive will add to the height of the hardwood?

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Old 05-07-2014, 03:41 PM   #2
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How much height does adhesive add?


If you spread the adhesive very thin, you might get an acceptable result, but then you will probably not get a very good bond. Your answer depends on a factor called "squeeze out" Which is how much is put down, how much it is spread, and the pressure applied to the parts, to spread the adhesive.

All of which you do not specify. So I cannot say how much it will add.

ED

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Old 05-07-2014, 07:16 PM   #3
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How much height does adhesive add?


Kaveman,

Will you please explain what is under the marble tiles? How many layers and how thick. I'm more concerned that there isn't enough plywood under the marble and what the marble tiles are being bonded to.

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Old 05-08-2014, 12:18 AM   #4
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How much height does adhesive add?


Hi Jaz,

The marble is bonded to a 1/4" hardibacker or durock (forgot which the tile guy used). The cement board sits on top of an additional 1" thick plywood subfloor. The marble is currently about 7/8" higher than the plywood subfloor. So I am adding on 3/8" plywood and 1/2" engineered hardwood to even it out.
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Old 05-08-2014, 09:08 AM   #5
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How much height does adhesive add?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaveman
The marble is bonded to a 1/4" hardibacker or durock (forgot which the tile guy used). The cement board sits on top of an additional 1" thick plywood subfloor.
I suspected as much. That subfloor setup does not meet minimum specs for natural stone tiles. Although 1" ply subfloor is a good start, a second ply sheet is required, then the concrete backer. I also suspect the framing doesn't meet minimum deflection requirements. Too late now I guess.

Jaz
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Old 05-08-2014, 11:02 AM   #6
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How much height does adhesive add?


Jazz, the 1" ply is actually made up of two 5/8" boards so it's a little more than 1". How thick does it need to be? I believe the framing is 24" OC. I,'ll have to double check.
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Old 05-08-2014, 08:12 PM   #7
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How much height does adhesive add?


I can only go by what you write. Two 5/8" sheets of ply is not even close to a 1" sheet.

There are two deflection requirements in a wooden subfloor system.

* The deflection between the joists. This is the most important.

* The deflection of the joists.

This deflection is calculated and given a number for reference. It is agreed that for natural stone the maximum deflection shall be 1/720. Usually written as L720. Meaning 1" deflection in a span of 720", or any fraction there of.

The max deflection for modern homes and ceramic/porcelain is L360. It is my observation that it is rare that a home meets L720 unless it was known that natural stone tiles were to be installed when the home was built.

We've been waiting for you to confirm the joists' oc spacing. If it is 24", I would worry about tile cracking.

If you're also in the mood for more bad info, give us the; type & size of the joists, their species and grade if possible, the oc spacing and the span down to the inch.

Jaz
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Old 05-11-2014, 11:24 PM   #8
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How much height does adhesive add?


Hi Jazman,

Sorry I took so long to respond, I finally had a chance to look under the house and here is what I found:

Joist thickness: 3.5" x 5.5"
Joist Spacing: 48" OC
Joist runs: 6' foot
Joist Type: Red Wood
Floor Board: (2) 5/8" Plywood + 1/4" hardibacker

The house was built in 1961
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Old 05-12-2014, 03:49 AM   #9
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How much height does adhesive add?


I believe that you are in for a major rebuild of the structure, if you want to use the stone tiles.

I re-read the post, stone tile is already down. OH-NO

That appears to be very poorly built.

ED

Last edited by de-nagorg; 05-12-2014 at 03:55 AM.
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Old 05-12-2014, 04:06 AM   #10
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How much height does adhesive add?


Anything we can do at this point?
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Old 05-12-2014, 08:31 AM   #11
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How much height does adhesive add?


I will suggest that you try to install "sistered" joists at the midpoint between your existing joists.

That might be over build, but too much support is a lot better than the small amount that you have now.


ED
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Old 05-12-2014, 09:44 AM   #12
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How much height does adhesive add?


If that will help I'm all for it. Are there any specifics I need to follow to meet the L720 rating? Wood size and type, distance of each registered joint, etc? Do I only do this under the floor of all tiled spaces?

I'm disappointed that the tile guy mentioned nothing about this.

Last edited by Kaveman42; 05-12-2014 at 09:48 AM. Reason: adding question
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Old 05-12-2014, 09:57 AM   #13
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How much height does adhesive add?


I too am astonished that tile guy did not advise you better.

I am also glad that he is in your area and not mine.

I am sure that Jazman will be along with the specifics for you soon.

Your specs are for 2x6 redwood already existing, so that is what I would sister together in the middle of the 48" space, but you still have a weaker than recommended floor sheeting, but it might hold up .

ED
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Old 05-12-2014, 12:10 PM   #14
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How much height does adhesive add?


Kaveman,

You obviously live on the left coast. Probably Northern CA, or OR. That construction is common out there although usually 2x6 or 2x8's are used as the subfloor then covered with ply.

The 48" o.c. spacing is the weakest part of the floor. If you can install additional joists running perpendicular to them, (the 48" way) you would solve that problem. 4 joists spaced about 14.5" o.c. should do it. The difficulty is to install them without stressing anything since the tiles are installed already.

Jaz
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Old 05-12-2014, 04:08 PM   #15
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How much height does adhesive add?


Hi Jaz,

Yes, I'm in Southern California. How would I be able to attach it to the plywood flooring after setting up the joists? Is liquid nails enough? I'm guess all it needs to do it provide downward support to prevent any stress. Do I add the 2x6 joists with a bracket attached to the perpendicular joists? Can this only be done where the tile work is located or throughout the whole house?

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