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-   -   Help! Vinyl tiles over linoleum mess (http://www.diychatroom.com/f5/help-vinyl-tiles-over-linoleum-mess-161690/)

Tatka75 10-30-2012 11:00 PM

Help! Vinyl tiles over linoleum mess
 
Hi :-)
Previous owner of our house did a quick fix and put vinyl tiles over existing linoleum in all of the bathrooms. Looks like it was done wrong, so now all vinyl pieces are misplaces and some of them cracked. I had removed some of the tiles.
I'm looking for low-cost solution to fix that mess. Should I remove tiles and linoleum or tiles only? If later - what is the best way to get the glue off? I am planning to install new vinyl floor.
Thank you!
T.

joecaption 10-31-2012 01:03 AM

To lay new linolium the old tile and old linolium all have to go.
If it was layed over 1/4 louon I'd just remove that to at the same time, easyer then try to scrape old glue off.
Linolium needs a perfectly flat surface to lay on, so onve you down to the subfloor you would need to lay a new layer of 1/4 sanded subfloor rated plywood.
Not louon !!!
It needs to be fastened ever 4" on the edges and 6 to 8" in the field.
All nail dimples, seams and flaws need to be filled with floor leveler.

Tatka75 11-02-2012 02:41 PM

Ok thanks!
Does that mean I would need to remove vanity and bathtub? I know toilet must go.
It's one of my first DIY project, I never dissambled the bathroom before, I'm newbee :-)

joecaption 11-02-2012 03:21 PM

Just the vanity toilet, 1/4 rd. molding. Most often the underlayment was installed next to the tub and walls not under it.

RWCustom 11-03-2012 02:03 AM

It is perfectly acceptable to go over an existing sheet vinyl with another layer of sheet vinyl while taking a number of factors into consideration.

Is the existing flooring a good candidate to overlay with another layer? Meaning, is the vinyl curling, damaged, improperly installed. Is it installed directly over the subfloor, or did they use a proper underlayment that is rated for flooring?

If there is minimal curling or surface damage to the existing vinyl flooring you can properly prepare it by removing anything loose, curling, and feel free to screw the floor down if you want to. You would need to skim the entire floor with an embossing leveler anyway, to get the surface perfectly smooth and flat, and in doing so it will fill in any small areas that you had to cut out, or screw dimples, etc.

If you have a properly installed, solid, non water damaged 5-ply flooring rated underlayment (minimum), and as long as the existing vinyl is in decent shape (referring to structure and adhesion), then you can safely install over that surface IF it is prepared properly. It doesn't always make sense to tear out perfectly solid and properly installed underlayment just to turn around and install what you just tore out. This is bearing in mind that you know what to look for to determine if your floor is a good candidate to overlay.

You need to pull the floor vent to see if the floor was underlayed, check the subfloor and underlayment around the toilet flange once you pull the toilet for water damage or rot. Take a screwdriver and poke around along where the flooring meets with the shower or tub base to check for soft spots.

If in doubt, rip it out. You can't go wrong by getting back to the subfloor, but if the existing floor is good enough to safely overly then you do have that option, but just like anything else it needs to be done properly while using the proper materials and installation techniques. Again, if you're in doubt or aren't comfortable with knowing how, or what to look for, then don't stress over it, just tear the flooring out and start from scratch. Just make sure that you read through the product data sheet and product installation sheet so that you will know the proper way to prepare your floor for the new material. As long as you use the manufacturer recommended installation methods, adhesives, etc. you won't risk having to tear it all out to do it again.

RWCustom 11-03-2012 02:04 AM

lagged out, double post, moderator can delete.

Tatka75 11-03-2012 01:06 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Thanks
Now it looks like that.

Tatka75 11-03-2012 01:15 PM

I have to remove vinyl tiles. Tough part is to remove glue resedue - any tips for that?
There is no vent on the floor, I can't see what is underneath the white linoleum.
I don't see any damage around the toilet.

RWCustom 11-03-2012 05:05 PM

Hmmm, it might be the picture fooling me, but I don't see any adhesive on the vinyl that's underneath the tile. Are those tile on the surface peel and stick? A good way to tell (most of the time) is if there isn't any adhesive residue in the grout joints of the vinyl that they stuck the peel and stick tile to. The adhesive film on the back of most peel and stick tile is so thin that even the slightest surface imperfections will cause the bond to fail. Well, that's one of many reasons why the peel and stick tile tend to fail, but that's another topic all together.

At any rate, if you still have a thin adhesive film/residue after removing the tile then you might try something like Goo Gone (or something similar that can break down some adhesives) and scrub the residue with the rough side of a scotch brite pad. You can try spraying a generous film of the Goo Gone type material on the vinyl and let it soak in and work for 15 minutes or so, then scrub at it with a soft abrasive pad and see what happens. The idea is to use just enough elbow grease to get the residue off without blowing through the wear layer of the old vinyl and getting into the felt backing.

Depending on what adhesive stripping chemical you use just make sure you crack a window. If you close yourself into a small bathroom and get to slinging solvents all over the place there is a good chance you won't even be able to spell your own name after a short while of using your lungs to filter toxic chemicals, etc.

Good luck with your project.

Hardwood Head 11-03-2012 05:54 PM

You need to get back to the original subfloor. Remove all floor coverings and if there is a 1/4" plywood that may have been layed before the linoleum was originally installed this will have to go as well. Removing the toilet and vanity will make your life easier when stripping the floors and laying the new ply. Once you have everything stripped away and are left with the bare subfloor it is a good idea to take this opportunity to re-screw the subfloor to the floor joists to tighten up the seams and areas that may have worked themselves loose over the years. Lay new 1/4" plywood (Good 1 side) over the existing subfloor covering any glue residue that is left. Run these 1/4" sheets in the opostite direction of how the existing subfloor is layed and stagger the joints securing approx. every 4"-6", it is important that the seams between each sheet are tight and do not have gaps. For areas that you will need to cut the 1/4" ply to size make sure you put your cut side of the sheet to the wall and use the factore side for joints and seams. Installing this new 1/4 plywood directly over the existing subfloor will provide a smooth clean surface for the new linoleum and avoid the need for you to scrape the remaining glue residue left from the old flooring. Do your best to scrape the floor and remove any bumps or high spots of glue that could cause bumps in the new 1/4 ply when installed. You will need to fill the diviots in the 1/4" ply left from the fasteners and also patch and level the seams and joints, any uneven joints or divots in the plywood will be noticable once the linoleum is installed so take your time and prep this properly. You can now lay your linoleum directly over the 1/4" ply

rusty baker 11-03-2012 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RWCustom (Post 1043679)
It is perfectly acceptable to go over an existing sheet vinyl with another layer of sheet vinyl while taking a number of factors into consideration.

Is the existing flooring a good candidate to overlay with another layer? Meaning, is the vinyl curling, damaged, improperly installed. Is it installed directly over the subfloor, or did they use a proper underlayment that is rated for flooring?

If there is minimal curling or surface damage to the existing vinyl flooring you can properly prepare it by removing anything loose, curling, and feel free to screw the floor down if you want to. You would need to skim the entire floor with an embossing leveler anyway, to get the surface perfectly smooth and flat, and in doing so it will fill in any small areas that you had to cut out, or screw dimples, etc.

If you have a properly installed, solid, non water damaged 5-ply flooring rated underlayment (minimum), and as long as the existing vinyl is in decent shape (referring to structure and adhesion), then you can safely install over that surface IF it is prepared properly. It doesn't always make sense to tear out perfectly solid and properly installed underlayment just to turn around and install what you just tore out. This is bearing in mind that you know what to look for to determine if your floor is a good candidate to overlay.

You need to pull the floor vent to see if the floor was underlayed, check the subfloor and underlayment around the toilet flange once you pull the toilet for water damage or rot. Take a screwdriver and poke around along where the flooring meets with the shower or tub base to check for soft spots.

If in doubt, rip it out. You can't go wrong by getting back to the subfloor, but if the existing floor is good enough to safely overly then you do have that option, but just like anything else it needs to be done properly while using the proper materials and installation techniques. Again, if you're in doubt or aren't comfortable with knowing how, or what to look for, then don't stress over it, just tear the flooring out and start from scratch. Just make sure that you read through the product data sheet and product installation sheet so that you will know the proper way to prepare your floor for the new material. As long as you use the manufacturer recommended installation methods, adhesives, etc. you won't risk having to tear it all out to do it again.

What you say is true to a point. You cannot lay new vinyl over old cushioned vinyl, though. And sometimes it is less work to take up the old.

rusty baker 11-03-2012 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hardwood Head (Post 1044095)
You need to get back to the original subfloor. Remove all floor coverings and if there is a 1/4" plywood that may have been layed before the linoleum was originally installed this will have to go as well. Removing the toilet and vanity will make your life easier when stripping the floors and laying the new ply. Once you have everything stripped away and are left with the bare subfloor it is a good idea to take this opportunity to re-screw the subfloor to the floor joists to tighten up the seams and areas that may have worked themselves loose over the years. Lay new 1/4" plywood (Good 1 side) over the existing subfloor covering any glue residue that is left. Run these 1/4" sheets in the opostite direction of how the existing subfloor is layed and stagger the joints securing approx. every 4"-6", it is important that the seams between each sheet are tight and do not have gaps. For areas that you will need to cut the 1/4" ply to size make sure you put your cut side of the sheet to the wall and use the factore side for joints and seams. Installing this new 1/4 plywood directly over the existing subfloor will provide a smooth clean surface for the new linoleum and avoid the need for you to scrape the remaining glue residue left from the old flooring. Do your best to scrape the floor and remove any bumps or high spots of glue that could cause bumps in the new 1/4 ply when installed. You will need to fill the diviots in the 1/4" ply left from the fasteners and also patch and level the seams and joints, any uneven joints or divots in the plywood will be noticable once the linoleum is installed so take your time and prep this properly. You can now lay your linoleum directly over the 1/4" ply

This new plywood must be underlayment grade. Not just any 1/4" ply. And it should be stapled every 1" to 2" along the edges and every 4" to 6" in the field.


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