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jayd33- 05-20-2014 10:52 AM

help tile underlayment
 
Hi I need some help because im stuck and do not know what to do.
I am tiling my kitchen and having a problem selecting what best to put underneath.

My floors right now go
Joists than 3/4" x 3" diagnal boards (with ~ 1/8" small spaces between each) than 1/4" plywood ( not a fan but it was the previous owner so i continued it)


My choices are

1. Tear up the plywood and lay 1/2" cement board than lay tiles on top

2. Add 1/4 cement board on top of the 1/4" plywood

3. Put a layer of ditra (or similar product) on top of the plywood

4. Last resort lather the floor over and over with redgerd membrane

Other information:
- Porcelien tiles are a decent quality 12" x 24"
- house has infloor heating only so i still want heat to come threw
- house is a 1976

Please comment on best choise and gige your own opinions if you could

Thanks for your time

JazMan 05-20-2014 11:28 AM

Hi Jay,

Quote:

Hi I need some help because im stuck and do not know what to do.
That's understandable, flooring isn't what you do.

1. NO
2. NO
3. NO
4. NO

None of your choices are good ones.

You need to remove the 1/4" ply to get to the plank subfloor. Inspect, repair/replace the planks as necessary. Check for flatness. May be easier to fix at this stage. Report back if the floor is very flat, I'd want no more than 1/8" off in 10 ft. Use a long straight edge string or laser device.

Check joists and let us know their; type and size, species and grade, (if at all possible), on-center spacing and the unsupported span.

Then install min. 1/2" preferably thicker underlayment grade good quality plywood. Fasten to the planks only. Be sure to orient the correct way, long sides perpendicular to the joists.

Now install the 1/4" concrete backer into thin set mortar, fasten, tape etc. Or a mat such as Ditra.

Now the easy part, the tiles. Well kinda easy, but those large tiles makes it more difficult. Check the tiles for warpage, should install with 1/3 offset, not 50%.

In-floor-heating only? Please xplain that. Are the heating tubes under the subfloor between the joists' bays?

Where is the house? Some answers may require this info.

Jaz

jayd33- 05-20-2014 12:52 PM

Lol next problem makong this install into a nightmare i only have 1/2" to play with already making the tile a bit higher than the 10 mm laminate that already runs threw the house on 1/4" plywood
( only reason i kept 1/4" plywood going in kitchen)

This is all on main floor above basement

The heating system is tubes strapped to the planks in the floor which does not help lol

jayd33- 05-20-2014 12:53 PM

I live in edmonton alberta
Joists are 2" thick im sure and about a foot and a half apart i do not know the spieces

Bud Cline 05-20-2014 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayd33- (Post 1353111)
I live in edmonton alberta
Joists are 2" thick im sure and about a foot and a half apart i do not know the spieces

To get any serious answers based on what does and doesn't work historically, more accurate information is required. All of the answers are available in charts and books that already exist based on uniform building codes. Shooting from the hip guesstimates of "what-is" is a waste of time.

Are the joists (in-fact) two inches in thickness or are they in reality 1-1/2" in thickness? Are the joists 18" apart or are they 16" apart? What is the unsupported span of the joists. Saying they go from here to there isn't good enough.

The use of 1/4" plywood as a tile floor underlayment is never acceptable for reasons I won't waste any time on for now.

This project is headed for disaster if it proceeds along the path it is now headed. No-one here wants that responsibility.:no:

jayd33- 05-20-2014 01:44 PM

Hey i am simply just trying to get some ideas (not make anyone responsible for anything) on what would be better i know that 1/4" plywood is not good enough that is what is causing the headache i will double check on everything when i get back to the housr after work but what could i buy so the tiles do not crack

Thanks any ideas help

Bud Cline 05-20-2014 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayd33- (Post 1353121)
Hey i am simply just trying to get some ideas (not make anyone responsible for anything) on what would be better i know that 1/4" plywood is not good enough that is what is causing the headache i will double check on everything when i get back to the housr after work but what could i buy so the tiles do not crack

Thanks any ideas help


With accurate information about your existing floor criteria we would be glad to help. Awaiting your return.:)

jayd33- 05-20-2014 05:47 PM

Awesome thanks
They are 16" center to center and are 1.5" thick

JazMan 05-20-2014 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay
They are 16" center to center and are 1.5" thick

Well, of course they are! :wink:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay
i only have 1/2" to play with already making the tile a bit higher than the 10 mm laminate that already runs threw the house on 1/4" plywood

No you don't. You need to do at least one of the floors right, choose this one. You can keep it close to an inch by using Ditra, saving about 3/16" over 1/4" concrete backer. This way the finished height difference should be about 1/2-5/8". You can make a wood threshold and bevel it as necessary or even a marble threshold can be used.

Can you further xplain about the in floor heating?

Ok, so, the span is?

Jaz

jayd33- 05-20-2014 08:29 PM

Lol i cant tell it has drywall ceiling in the basement.
Im pretty much screwed because everything is still installed kitchen cabinets, backsplash , lol dishwasher that would be tight getting back in lmao talk about a huge mess

I give up may go with cork or something if i cant find what would do with this.
Im taking your guys idea of 1/2" plywood + 1 of the other two to try make this work haha

Never buy a project off someone else

jayd33- 05-20-2014 08:34 PM

And it is 1/4" spruce board lmao

jayd33- 05-20-2014 09:14 PM

Lol sorry 1 more dumb question if i lay another 1/4" ply wood down than the 1/4"cement board on the top of existing 1/4" am i adding to the problem or helping it?

Bud Cline 05-20-2014 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayd33- (Post 1353304)
Lol i cant tell it has drywall ceiling in the basement.
Im pretty much screwed because everything is still installed kitchen cabinets, backsplash , lol dishwasher that would be tight getting back in lmao talk about a huge mess

I give up may go with cork or something if i cant find what would do with this.
Im taking your guys idea of 1/2" plywood + 1 of the other two to try make this work haha

Never buy a project off someone else

Man you get fragmented easily!!!
The dishwasher is probably not a major concern if you know how to deal with it. You aren't the first one to deal with these issues. You do realize this don't you? What is so funny about the dishwasher NOT fitting back where it belongs? (lmao-lol)

Bud Cline 05-20-2014 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayd33- (Post 1353320)
Lol sorry 1 more dumb question if i lay another 1/4" ply wood down than the 1/4"cement board on the top of existing 1/4" am i adding to the problem or helping it?

Are ya kiddin' me here? After the previous multiple-warnings about using 1/4" ply anywhere in a tile installation how can you ask that question?


NOW! Again: What is the length of the unsupported floor joists? If they are hidden in a ceiling downstairs you can still accurately estimate their length by measuring downstairs.

jayd33- 05-20-2014 09:51 PM

The nightmare of this job is the funny part lol one thing after another.

Well after looking around i found that i can pull it off but the dishwasher is going to be like a 1/4" below the granite countertop is this going to be a problem other than screwing the dishwasher top to the bottom of the granite.


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