Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Flooring

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-05-2013, 02:24 PM   #46
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 78
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Help Laying Marble Floor Tile


Guys-The project has been dragging on forever, but our tile, ditra, and thinset have finally arrived. I elected to go with a thicker than necessary 3/4" underlayment---exterior exposure 1--as Jaz suggested.

For screws, no wood screws, correct? I just want "underlayment screw" or "deck screws" right? Also, for the length....my underlayment is 3/4" and the subfloor T&G planks are 3/4". Should I total those up and get 1.5" screws or do I need something a little longer?

Lastly, as I start putting down the underlayment, how do I account for expansion? I know I should probably leave 1/4" between the underlayment and the walls but do I butt the underlayment as close to the other sheets as I can otherwise?

Thanks a lot!

DrDIYer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2013, 05:06 PM   #47
Tileguy
 
JazMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Troy, Michigan
Posts: 4,071
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Help Laying Marble Floor Tile


The 1.5" screws you mentioned will be good, if you can only find 1 5/8", then use those.

Plywood sheets are spaced 1/8" when used used ceramic. Leave the gaps alone until you decide which method and thinset mortar you're gonna use. Some thinsets say to fill the gaps with thinset. Others will tell you to apply 1" wide bond-breaker tape over the gaps to keep the thinset out.

Jaz
__________________
Tile 4 You LLC Troy, MI

DITRA Installs - KERDI Watertight-Mold-Free Showers. I have NEVER made a mistake, I thought I did ONCE, but, I was WRONG! A+ BBB rating - est. 1987 - over 50 yrs. exp.
JazMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2013, 08:39 AM   #48
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 78
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Help Laying Marble Floor Tile


So the underlayment is ready to be screwed into place, but I am still struggling with a couple screw questions.

1) Why do you miss the joists? Everyone I tell I am trying to miss the joists thinks I'm crazy and says there is no logical reason to do so. I trust you guys, but am curious as to why.

2) I have a Simpson Quik Drive which I was going to use to put the screws down. The screws they recommend to me when I tell them what they are doing are these:
http://www.fastoolnow.com/wsntl134s.html
These are listed as "deck/dock" screws but also say "wood screws," which I think someone said do not use.

I need to understand more about which screws and why. Here is a link to al the Quik Drive screws. There are 81 different "deck/dock" screws and I want to make sure I get the best screw for my job. If the one above is not good please let me know what would work better.
http://www.fastoolnow.com/quikdrive-...ck-screws.html

Thanks again for the help...I do appreciate it!
DrDIYer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2013, 12:03 PM   #49
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 56
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Help Laying Marble Floor Tile


I understand the theory of missing the joist but don't necesarily agree. He is trying to create a sepperate unit from the structure for movement reasons. Ditra is a great product, but so is cement backerboards. Not sure why some people dont like them. There is a reason why they are used more then anything and i dont think it is propaganda. I have the Dewalt...great saw...get it. Shiny soft marble in a foyer? Slippery when wet, scratches VERY easy. Keep slippers out side your door. One tip I would like to add that alot of people will probably not agree with is back butter your marble. I was accused of being to anal when someone saw me doing this. Fine line between perfectionist and being to anal. also, cutting the corners off is extra work but will in fact make the job a little easier in the fact that if you dont have it perfectly flat (notice i did not say level) you wont have corners popping up because you removed them. This is of course within reason. This is one of the hardest things you will run into when it comes to a DIY is keeping the floor flat and no corners popping up. If you struggle you can always make bigger groutlines but some people feel that is defeating the purpose and is "cheating". Good luck and i hope if I ever need a doc he is as thorough as you.
skipoff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2013, 12:04 PM   #50
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 56
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Help Laying Marble Floor Tile


You can also use roofing nails but again, some people may disagree.
skipoff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2013, 08:47 PM   #51
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 78
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Help Laying Marble Floor Tile


Thanks for the response. I freely admit that I am very thorough in my research and planning for projects like this. I don't start until I'm an expert.

I had someone tell me that if you hit the joists with screws it may lift the subfloor off the joist a bit. Is that true and thus the reason you miss them?

I would really appreciate some input on screws. I want to get them into this subfloor but don't want to end up with a disaster because I used the wrong screws. Are the ones I linked to above a good choice? Thanks again!
DrDIYer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 07:40 PM   #52
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 78
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Help Laying Marble Floor Tile


Guys-I think I have the a grasp on why you miss the joists. I did some reading in the Ditra manual and some books I bought.

Still wondering about what screws to use for my Quik Drive (or if there aren't any suitable for a Quik Drive but I think they have most types covered). These are what I was looking at:

http://www.fastoolnow.com/wsntl134s.html

Any problem with using those to put down the underlayment?

Thanks!
DrDIYer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 08:31 PM   #53
Tileguy
 
JazMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Troy, Michigan
Posts: 4,071
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Help Laying Marble Floor Tile


Those screws look just fine to me. I see they're recommended by Huber & Advantech, who would be in a position to better know than most of us here. The length is good too, and won't penetrate into the joists.

As for fastening to the joists; You probably know now that the idea is to isolate the joists from the flooring as much as possible. It's not completely possible, but if the underlayment is attached directly to the joists, a slight twist is more likely to affect the finished floor. I don't think it's a major issue, but why not avoid the joists and not use long fasteners when installing the second sheet.

Jaz
__________________
Tile 4 You LLC Troy, MI

DITRA Installs - KERDI Watertight-Mold-Free Showers. I have NEVER made a mistake, I thought I did ONCE, but, I was WRONG! A+ BBB rating - est. 1987 - over 50 yrs. exp.
JazMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2013, 12:18 PM   #54
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 56
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Help Laying Marble Floor Tile


Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMan View Post
Those screws look just fine to me. I see they're recommended by Huber & Advantech, who would be in a position to better know than most of us here. The length is good too, and won't penetrate into the joists.

As for fastening to the joists; You probably know now that the idea is to isolate the joists from the flooring as much as possible. It's not completely possible, but if the underlayment is attached directly to the joists, a slight twist is more likely to affect the finished floor. I don't think it's a major issue, but why not avoid the joists and not use long fasteners when installing the second sheet.

Jaz
Possible squeeks maybe? Again we disagree jaz.
skipoff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2013, 04:41 PM   #55
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 78
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Help Laying Marble Floor Tile


Guys-I am really having a bit of a debacle on what to do as far as expansion joints. I am putting down exterior exposure 1 underlayment grade plywood as my underlayment. My thinset over that onto which I will lay my ditra is Mapei Ultraflex 2. I think Jaz had said that my thinset would have instructions on how to handle the gaps between sheets of underlayment. However, I don't see anything detailed on the Ultraflex. All it says is to follow manufacturers guidelines for putting down underlayment and not to put the Ultraflex over top of expansion joints.

So, 2 questions:

1. How much gap between sheets of underlayment? (and do you leave gaps between the underlayment and the walls? Between the sheets of underlayment? Or both?)

2. Given that I am using Mapei Ultraflex 2 between the underlayment and ditra, how to I handle the joints between underlayment as well as between underlayment and the walls?

Thanks a lot!
DrDIYer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2013, 09:10 PM   #56
Tileguy
 
JazMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Troy, Michigan
Posts: 4,071
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Help Laying Marble Floor Tile


DrDIYer,

1. Both. Underlayment is gapped 1/8" between sheets and 1/4" around the perimeter & any vertical objects. Always run the sheets perpendicular to the joists like the subfloor, but offset from the subfloor sheets both ways.

2. As you stated above, Mapei (and anyone else), doesn't want you to fill structural expansion joints, such as those in a concrete slab. Your situation is different. Those 1/8" gaps in the underlayment are not structural. But it's best to keep them open by apply 1" bond-breaker tape on them or fill with a flexible caulk. However you may need expansion joints in the subfloor system and in Ditra & tile work if the area is big enough or is a wet space, or gets direct sunshine.

Jaz

__________________
Tile 4 You LLC Troy, MI

DITRA Installs - KERDI Watertight-Mold-Free Showers. I have NEVER made a mistake, I thought I did ONCE, but, I was WRONG! A+ BBB rating - est. 1987 - over 50 yrs. exp.
JazMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Coloring/staining tired marble floor smileibiza Tiling, ceramics, marble 16 12-11-2011 01:12 PM
Adhesive for Marble Threshold Twister Flooring 11 05-14-2011 01:20 PM
marble tile in bathroom floor Arianeg Flooring 1 03-18-2008 03:07 PM
laying marble tile...does pattern matter that much? tarheelblue Flooring 3 03-02-2008 01:04 PM
Joining Marble Backsplash to Marble Countertop JLF377 Building & Construction 1 07-29-2007 12:27 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.