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Old 10-29-2011, 10:22 AM   #1
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Got old floor up - OK experts....what next - pic inside


We got the Pergo Laminate up and ripped up the 2 layers of old flooring underneath.

Glue is still on what we think is the subfloor. We were thinking we could just leave that - clean as much as we can and then add another subfloor (plywood) over.

Thoughts?

Then we would do the Ditra and tile.
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Old 10-29-2011, 10:25 AM   #2
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I think that's an underlayment and not the subfloor. Check it out. If that's the case the mess would be easier to clean out simply by removing the underlayment and the mess will come with it.

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Old 10-29-2011, 10:30 AM   #3
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Got old floor up - OK experts....what next - pic inside


What would happen if we didn't remove? What are our options?

We had two guys getting up the 2 sets of linoleum. They are just about done and cleaning up.
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Old 10-29-2011, 10:38 AM   #4
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Okay here's the deal, argue with this.

What you see there is not your subfloor, it is plywood that was installed with the vinyl. It is probably 1/4" thick and it is probably Luaun. God only knows what is under it.

According to the industry tile installation recommendations Luaun plywood is forbidden in any tile installation, it wrecks tile jobs because it is vulnerable to the moisture that is in the thinset tile mortar.

According to the industry tile installation recommendations 1/4" plywood is never to be used in a tile installation. Plywood that is 3/8" is the minimum.

According to the industry tile installation recommendations 1/4" plywood is much too flexible and will move under conditions of application of weight such as walking and that movement will destroy a tile installation.
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Old 10-29-2011, 10:42 AM   #5
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Got old floor up - OK experts....what next - pic inside


Ok so what size plywood should I put over? 3/8"?

What do you think is underneath? It should just be the real subfloor I would think.

I know what they just took up was the only flooring left.

At this point I know that the kitchen floor is going to be higher than the real hardwood in the rest of the house and I am OK with that.

I am not sure we can take up the luan.
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Old 10-29-2011, 10:48 AM   #6
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Before you go any further.

Sample what you are showing in the photo to see if it is in fact a layer of plywood underlayment or not.

You never want to heap flooring on top of flooring on top of flooring and then try to install ceramic tile on top of the stack. It's a house of cards.
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Old 10-29-2011, 10:54 AM   #7
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Got old floor up - OK experts....what next - pic inside


I get it Bud....imagine all those people who would not of even pulled the linoleum layers up!!! LOL

I think you are right. The real subfloor is under the wood in the pic. But seriously I am not sure we will take that up.

I know you want us to do it right and I don't argue that at all.

I thought the Ditra would help with movement?
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Old 10-29-2011, 11:01 AM   #8
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DITRA only helps with lateral movement. Nothing helps with up and down movement. Flex in a floor is a tile killer. Nows not the time to get lazy but you're gonna do what you're gonna do so...whatever. You were warned.
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Old 10-29-2011, 11:05 AM   #9
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That wood that is down now has nails every 4 inches or so...how would we get that up???

If we made sure the floor was level we have a chance right?

I gotta see what my BIL thinks too. I am scared! We have to cover this floor with something.
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Old 10-29-2011, 11:12 AM   #10
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Quote:
That wood that is down now has nails every 4 inches or so...how would we get that up???
That's correct. That's how UNDERLAYMENT is installed. One fastener every four inches on center in all directions. That is because the damned stuff moves so bad. Under vinyl flooring it is okay, under ceramic tile it is suicide.

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how would we get that up???
Saw it about every 12 inches with a circular saw set to a depth of 3/8" and then pry it. It will come up. Then have a good time pulling the nails that pull-thru.

Quote:
If we made sure the floor was level we have a chance right?
Not a snow ball's chance in a car wash. Keep trying!

If your brother-n-law has any idea what he is talking about he will tell you the same thing I am telling you. TAKE IT OUT GIT-R-DONE!
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Old 10-29-2011, 12:22 PM   #11
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Got old floor up - OK experts....what next - pic inside


Ok, so I happened to be standing at an angle and saw light through the crack in the floor. It was the basement light. After examination through a hole in another corner and peeling up a bit, the wood floor that the old linoleom was on was the subfloor. The wood in the pic Underneath it is the wood that the on the basement ceiling.

Does this change anything?
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Old 10-29-2011, 12:52 PM   #12
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Okay let's take a look from another perspective. You don't have me convinced (just yet) that what is shown in the photo is your basic subfloor.

What is the measurement from the top of the floor you have exposed to the top of the hardwood floor adjacent?

And, what is the age of the home?
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Old 10-29-2011, 01:09 PM   #13
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Hard. to tell...not much...maybe 1/4 inch. House was built in 1965.
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Old 10-29-2011, 01:21 PM   #14
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Got old floor up - OK experts....what next - pic inside


"Hard to tell".

That's your answer?

Okay here's a simple deduction and then you can take it from here.

The hardwood is installed over your basic subfloor.
The hardwood is 3/4" thick.
If the variance is only ("1/4" hard to tell").
What the vinyl was applied to is an underlayment, not your subfloor.
Can't explain the light but it means nothing.

If you opt not to put forth the effort required to remove the underlayment to insure a successful tile installation then so-be-it. There is nothing more I can say or do to help you. DITRA isn't the answer.
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Old 10-29-2011, 04:13 PM   #15
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Got old floor up - OK experts....what next - pic inside


Ok talked to BIL. He said that we need to take up the plywood and get down to real subfloor. He is going to come over with a saw and crobars tomorrow. Then he said I can lay the ditra. He said we will figure out the size tomorrow.

I guess I was getting confused on what subfloor actually meant.

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