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-   -   Flooring vs Subflooring or whatever it is called (http://www.diychatroom.com/f5/flooring-vs-subflooring-whatever-called-23354/)

lifeontherun 07-08-2008 12:04 PM

Flooring vs Subflooring or whatever it is called
 
Purchased the home three years ago, it has "wood" looking vinyl through out. Now the material the vinyl is attached to is coming up, you can see the corners of this material. My husband and I have a discussion of what this is called, I believe it is the subflooring and he states it is the flooring. As you can see if we don't know what it is called we can not look up how to fix this problem.
Also, if you have any suggestions on how to help fix this problem it would be deeply appreciated. Since I think it should have been tongue & grooved boards and screwed to joyces prior to the walls being set.
Thank you for any help you may give.:)

RDS 07-08-2008 02:42 PM

Can you post a picture of the problem, or describe it a little more? What exactly is the material that's coming up? Seems unlikely that it would be the subfloor. And I don't understand your reference to tongue and groove boards since you say it's vinyl.

One thing I do know for sure is that they're called joists, not joyces.:)

Bud Cline 07-08-2008 03:23 PM

Without a better discription of the issue or a picture, what you have offered isn't enough to help.:)

lifeontherun 07-08-2008 03:44 PM

response to photo required
 
a photo would not show you much, I would have to have a high $ camera. we have vinyl floors that have the appearance of hardwood floors. what ever the vinyl is attached to underneath; plywood, particle board, etc. is coming up causing creases and cracks in the vinyl. you can not only see the rise you can feel it when you walk across it.

RDS 07-08-2008 04:08 PM

The vinyl flooring is a single-sheet product, right? Not tiles? Please confirm.

And you're seeing the corners of some underlying material poking up, making creases, peaks, cracks in the vinyl? Is that right?

Can you peel up a corner of the vinyl to see what that underlying material is? Are there multiple layers of old flooring under there -- maybe tiles, maybe more sheet flooring -- or is your vinyl directly on the wooden subfloor? This is important to know -- if you just call it "whatever it is" that makes it harder for people here to help you.

Regardless, whatever it is that's coming up, it will likely continue to do so unless you deal with it. Unfortunately that probably means taking up the vinyl as a first step. Then, if it's maybe old tiles underneath that are coming unstuck and peeling up, you'll need to remove them (hoping they don't contain asbestos!). If it's subfloor, well, then you need to figure out why your subfloor is coming up -- it shouldn't be doing that -- and then repair or replace it. You're talking a pretty big job.

In theory I suppose a cheap and ugly fix might be to just nail through the vinyl in the high spots and try to fasten the subfloor (if that's the source of the problem) back down that way, but this would be useless if you don't hit joists with your nails. And it would be temporary -- if this is a new problem it would probably continue to appear in other spots.

I'm doing a lot of guessing here -- your description is still pretty vague.

Bud Cline 07-08-2008 05:52 PM

First things first. Understanding the terms.

I doubt your "subfloor" is coming up at all. What is more likely is the "underlayment" is coming up.

Seems to be an apparent inability or lack of interest in explaining the details or taking a picture so without more to go on I'm not sure what anyone here can do. Any simple digital camera would suffice. Even a five dollar WalMart film camera with the photos transferred to a CD would work. That would be a seven dollar investment.:)

Nestor_Kelebay 07-08-2008 06:12 PM

It is probably your "underlayment" that is coming up.

Here's the "terminology":

In the Beginning, there were the floor joists.

They lay the "subfloor" onto the floor joists. The subfloor can be made of boards or it can be made of plywood type panels.

Then, they build the walls on top of the subfloor.

Then, they install "underlayment" which generally looks like either thin plywood or particle board in each room and hallway.

Then they install the flooring over top of the underlayment.

But, subsequent owners of the house may install flooring over top of the original flooring, and often they will nail down thin plywood over top of the original flooring before gluing down a new flooring.

lifeontherun 07-09-2008 07:36 PM

PLEASE SEE MY NOTES IN CAPS WITHIN YOUR MESSAGE:
Quote:

Originally Posted by RDS (Post 137166)
The vinyl flooring is a single-sheet product, right? Not tiles? Please confirm. YES, THIS IS CORRECT.
And you're seeing the corners of some underlying material poking up, making creases, peaks, cracks in the vinyl? Is that right? YES, THIS IS CORRECT

Can you peel up a corner of the vinyl to see what that underlying material is? BEEN TOO AFRAID TO DO THAT BUT WILL ATTEMPT THIS WEEKEND Are there multiple layers of old flooring under there -- maybe tiles, maybe more sheet flooring -- or is your vinyl directly on the wooden subfloor? THE HOUSE IS ONLY EIGHT YEARS OLD AND WE ARE THE SECOND OWNERS AND HAVE BEEN HERE FOR THREE YEARS This is important to know -- if you just call it "whatever it is" that makes it harder for people here to help you.

Regardless, whatever it is that's coming up, it will likely continue to do so unless you deal with it. Unfortunately that probably means taking up the vinyl as a first step. Then, if it's maybe old tiles underneath that are coming unstuck and peeling up, you'll need to remove them (hoping they don't contain asbestos!). If it's subfloor, well, then you need to figure out why your subfloor is coming up -- it shouldn't be doing that -- and then repair or replace it. You're talking a pretty big job.

In theory I suppose a cheap and ugly fix might be to just nail through the vinyl in the high spots and try to fasten the subfloor (if that's the source of the problem) back down that way, but this would be useless if you don't hit joists with your nails. And it would be temporary -- if this is a new problem it would probably continue to appear in other spots.

I'm doing a lot of guessing here -- your description is still pretty vague.

I WILL TRY TO GET A PHOTO OF THE FLOOR THIS WEEKEND, I TRIED WITH MY DIGITAL AND YOU REALLY CAN NOT MAKE OUT WHERE THERE ARE RAISED AREAS. I THINK IT IS BECAUSE OF THE COLOR OF THE VINYL, VERY LIGHT WOOD LOOKING (MY GRANDMOTHER WOULD HAVE CALLED IT BLONDE?)
THANKS FOR THE INPUT

lifeontherun 07-09-2008 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bud Cline (Post 137214)
First things first. Understanding the terms.

I doubt your "subfloor" is coming up at all. What is more likely is the "underlayment" is coming up.

Seems to be an apparent inability or lack of interest in explaining the details or taking a picture so without more to go on I'm not sure what anyone here can do. Any simple digital camera would suffice. Even a five dollar WalMart film camera with the photos transferred to a CD would work. That would be a seven dollar investment.:)

I WILL DO MY BEST THIS WEEKEND TO GET A PHOTO, TRIED WITH MY DIGITAL AND CAN NOT REALLY SEE WHERE THERE ARE RAISED AREAS. I THINK IT IS BECAUSE OF THE VINYL COLOR (MY GRANDMOTHER WOULD HAVE CALLED IT BLONDE?) I KNOW THIS AS SHE HAD LIGHT WOOD FLOORING IN HER HOUSE.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP

lifeontherun 07-09-2008 07:42 PM

THANK YOU FOR THE TERMINOLOGY, NOTHING WORSE THAN TRYING TO EXPLAIN SOMETHING USING "THING-A-MA-BOBBER." AS IN MY OTHER POSTS THIS EVENING, I WILL TRY FOR PHOTO THIS WEEKEND. THE HOUSE IS ONLY EIGHT YEARS OLD AND WE ARE THE SECOND OWNERS, SO I BELIEVE THIS IS THE FIRST AND ONLY FLOORING DOWN.
THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR HELP AND TERMINOLOGY. WILL TRY TO GET A PHOTO POSTED THIS WEEKEND.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nestor_Kelebay (Post 137219)
It is probably your "underlayment" that is coming up.

Here's the "terminology":

In the Beginning, there were the floor joists.

They lay the "subfloor" onto the floor joists. The subfloor can be made of boards or it can be made of plywood type panels.

Then, they build the walls on top of the subfloor.

Then, they install "underlayment" which generally looks like either thin plywood or particle board in each room and hallway.

Then they install the flooring over top of the underlayment.

But, subsequent owners of the house may install flooring over top of the original flooring, and often they will nail down thin plywood over top of the original flooring before gluing down a new flooring.


26yrsinflooring 07-09-2008 09:14 PM

I posted my reply on the other thread


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