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-   -   Floor and wall tile question (http://www.diychatroom.com/f5/floor-wall-tile-question-3069/)

irlizard 07-13-2006 10:17 PM

Floor and wall tile question
 
This is my first tile project and I have a question about where to start. I am putting tile on the wall around the tub, on the tub surround and on the floor of the bathroom. Is there any order in which I should start? I have put Hardee backer on the wall, window sill and surround where I will be tiling but will wait to put it on the floor until I am ready to tile the floor. What gets tiled first?

KUIPORNG 07-14-2006 11:40 AM

I would tile wall first to follow the top down approach I saw/heard somewhere on this thread...with obvious reasons like,... don't want to get the new flloor tile dirty/broken ...etc.

Floorwizard 07-14-2006 01:50 PM

I do know that the flooring is installed first.

KUIPORNG 07-14-2006 02:16 PM

what is your reasoning for floor being installed first though?

billinak 07-14-2006 02:49 PM

Regarding the tub surround, I tiled my bathroom last year. I started with a complete tile in the corner of the tub surround that you see when you first enter the bathroom, which is also the opposite side we keep the shower curtain on. That way, when you walk in, you see the corner with complete tiles (or full 1/2 tiles as this was a running bond pattern) and I made up the difference (cut tiles to fit) in the corner that is seen less often.

As far as the wall/floor issue, I would likely do the floor last so as to keep it in the best shape during the rest of the remodel, but Florcraft is more of an expert than I, so I defer to his judgement.

irlizard 07-14-2006 09:35 PM

I am a neat, clean worker so if the floor has to go in first then itís no problem. The whole bathroom is only 8x11 and most of the space is taken up with a whirlpool tub and an 8í wall to wall vanity so the floor space is limited and will be the smaller/easier job. Everything is quite level and square so I should not have too many problems:laughing: All suggestions are welcome

putri 07-14-2006 10:50 PM

john bridge
 
Go to johnbridge.com and you'll get your tile question answered quickly and accurately because the pros are there answering.

floorman 07-16-2006 07:14 PM

There are a number of different ways to accomplish this.you can work from the top down but i would suggest that you either put a straight edge around the the last row and fasten to the wall and work up from there work up from there or tile the floor and then stack the tile off of that.I would not be too concerened with damaging the tile on the floor,if there is that concern then maybe a new tile be considered for this project.
In a wet area you would want the wall tile stacked on top of the floor tile to get the extra added lip there to help keep the water from getting down where it shouldnt be and would be easier to caulk.:)

irlizard 07-16-2006 10:07 PM

OK, floor first! Sounds good to me, thanks floorman.

Floorwizard 07-17-2006 11:09 PM

sorry, was gone for vacation.

thanx for the backup floorman.

metamel 07-18-2006 11:20 PM

Florcraft, I wrote this message under the wrong thread, so I'll repeat it here. I had ceramic tile put down in my kitchen and the regular grout is cracking every place we walk. The cement board is 1/4 inch thick, but maybe there weren't enough screws put in and/or no thinset between cement board and plywood floor, which is 3/4 inch thick. I was wondering if I should pry up the tile and put in more screws in the cement board (I read where screws shouldn't go into joists, is this true? or do screws weaken the joists too much?). Would more screws firm up the floor, which is over a basement with free spans of 14 feet with 2 x10 inch joists, which are 16 inches over center. It met the building code.

Is there anything else that I could do, like use a rubberized grout that bends without cracking, or a fiber glass mesh that stiffens when cemented between the tile and cement board? What should I use for the adhesive between the tile and cement board? Mastic stuff, or thinset, was used before, but it seems too weak as there are a lot of cracks, say 50% of the tile where we walk. Maybe a stronger thinset with acylic or something would be better.

Also, should I try this Ditra liner between the cement board and the tile?, the liner decouples the tile from the floor and supposedly keeps the grout from cracking. Lot of questions, but you seem to know your stuff. Thanks, Metamel

Floorwizard 07-19-2006 12:02 AM

Quote:

Also, should I try this Ditra liner between the cement board and the tile?, the liner decouples the tile from the floor and supposedly keeps the grout from cracking.
You may have just answered your question.
there is no problem with doubling your efforts for stability.
Perhaps even 1/2 concrete board instead of 1/4 would have been good too.

Quote:

Is there anything else that I could do, like use a rubberized grout that bends without cracking,
possibly, but it seems there is a bigger problem with this....
Quote:

but it seems too weak as there are a lot of cracks, say 50% of the tile where we walk
are you saying the tile is cracking as well?

R&D Tile 07-19-2006 06:30 PM

Your floor just meets specs if in good shape.

Now, there are many reasons for this to have happened, the only fix at this point is to rip it all out down to the plywood and start over, for one, 1/2" CBU is supposed to be used over single layer plywood, why?, I have no idea, either thickness adds no strength to a floor, plywood does, I always use 2 layers of wood before a CBU or Membrane, I sleep better that way.:thumbup:

If this was a job I was doing, I would remove the tile and CBU, add 1/2" plywood, then a CBU or membrane following manufacturers directions for installation.:)

metamel 07-19-2006 08:20 PM

Florcraft,
No, the grout is cracking, not the tile, which seems to be loose in many places. That's why I thought that a stronger adhesive would do the trick. Can you say more about this Ditra liner? Like how much does it raise the tile over and above what the tile is now? ease of use, etc?
Thanks, Metamel

floorman 07-19-2006 08:48 PM

I would first want to know how wet u mixed the grout the first time and how much water was used when cleaning the grout.Also the 1/4 sounds a bit thin for the floor first of all,and how many screws and/or what was the pattern (4 inches 6 inches)What size trowel was used and the size of the tile.What about the thin set how thick was it and what type/brand was used?DO tell.
That will give us something to go by and how to answer your question a lil better:)


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