"floor flex" again

JazMan · 01-02-2013, 09:04 PM

If there's too much month left at the end of your money, you know what to do. It's all about priorities. There isn't that much difference in cost between the options if you're doing the installation yourself. If you're not able, different story.

Frankly I think if the small deflection deficit was only from the joists, (as yours), I would be inclined to go for it anyway knowing the charts are very conservative and with a little overkill built in. My answer would be different if the deflection between the joists was too high. Different dynamics in the latter.

Jaz

analogmusicman · 01-05-2013, 11:35 PM

ok,on to something else: (not sure if I should start another topic

but...
I've got this "powder room" I'm redoing. (yes Jaz,tile will be going down!) anyway,I'm removing the vinyl flooring and find that underneath is a 1/4 in. underlayment of what looks like "luan". should I leave it and put "Ditra" over it or remove it and put the Ditra right on the 3/4 plywood? or maybe remove it and replace it with 1/4 plywood?

tnx,

JazMan · 01-06-2013, 12:01 AM

You must remove the luan, then re-screw the subfloor and install either 1/4" concrete board or Ditra. No 1/4" ply allowed in a tile installation. How's the joists deflection in that part of the house?

Jaz

analogmusicman · 01-06-2013, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazMan

You must remove the luan, then re-screw the subfloor and install either 1/4" concrete board or Ditra. No 1/4" ply allowed in a tile installation. How's the joists deflection in that part of the house?

Jaz

by "re-screw the subfloor " do you mean, to get the squeaks out? I was going to do that anyway.
the luan is stapled down so it shouldn't be too hard to remove.
I ran the numbers and deflection is ok.

tnx,

JazMan · 01-06-2013, 01:25 PM

OK then. If the numbers are good, looks good, and feels good, then I guess you're good!

But yes you always re-fasten the subfloor even if there's no squeaks. Today no squeaks, in a few months it all changes.

Jaz

analogmusicman · 01-09-2013, 05:15 PM

ok "Jaz", I removed the top layer of vinyl and the next layer of "luan" and found linoleum under THAT and removed it.under that linoleum is what looks like 1/4 ply. (as an underlayment for the linoleun) I am dead positive that there is no more linoleum, just a subfloor of 3/4 ply and 1/4 ply on top of that. since the previous owner must have put that 1/4 ply down even before he built the walls (the house was new and I believe he finished that end of the house) , (and installed the vanity)it's going to be a royal P.I.T.A. to remove THAT.

can I leave it and tile over it? yeah,I know you said 1/4 ply is a no-no but I just can't see that 1/4 ply on top of 3/4 ply is anything but a sub-floor of 1 in. ply. is this wrong?

tnx,

JazMan · 01-09-2013, 07:19 PM

There is zero chance that the 1/4" ply for the older vinyl is under the walls. It might be under the vanity, easy enough to figure that out. Instead of doing this the hard way, why don't you drill a hole or use a hole-saw thingy for making holes in doors to see what's there?

Quote:

can I leave it and tile over it? yeah,I know you said 1/4 ply is a no-no but I just can't see that 1/4 ply on top of 3/4 ply is anything but a sub-floor of 1 in. ply. is this wrong?

Yes, you're right....it is wrong! First you don't want to tile on the ply, you want a CBU or membrane. And no, 3/4" + 1/4" is not the same as 1". I'd think you'd want to get as low as possible, inspect and refasten the subfloor and then install the tile backer or Ditra.

Next tile you remove vinyl tiles or sheet vinyl with 1/4" ply under it, remove both in the same operation. It' easier, faster and you won't been scraping any asbestos backing which is found in older sheet goods.

Jaz

analogmusicman · 01-09-2013, 09:49 PM

There is zero chance that the 1/4" ply for the older vinyl is under the walls

uh Jaz, as much as I respect your knowledge of tiling, I've got to say that you are dead wrong on this one! in my previous post I said that the former owner finished the end of the house containing the "powder room". he evidently laid down 1/4 ply all over,knowing that he was going to lay down linoleum everywhere, THEN, he put up the walls. so you can see my predicament, if I somehow manage to remove that 1/4 ply (with lots of cutting), that floor will be 1/4 in. lower than the rest of the floor in the laundry/utility room. THEN when I get around to tiling THAT area, I'll have the same problem,only THIS time I'll have much more cutting to do in order to remove the 1/4 ply.
so,the question is,how wouls you handle such a job? would you still insist that the 1/4 has to go no matter what?

tnx,

JazMan · 01-09-2013, 10:07 PM

Quote:

uh Jaz, as much as I respect your knowledge of tiling, I've got to say that you are dead wrong on this one!

What does my statement about the ply have to do with tiling knowledge?

Quote:

I've got to say that you are dead wrong on this one! in my previous post I said that the former owner finished the end of the house containing the "powder room". he evidently laid down 1/4 ply all over,knowing that he was going to lay down linoleum everywhere, THEN, he put up the walls.

If that's what he did, it's gotta be one of the dumbest things I've heard of in construction. So he thought it wasn't gonna rain there for several months until the house was sheltered?

But even so, it's not that hard to remove it, just get a toe-kick saw.

What are your plans for the tile installation method if you left the 1/4" ply? name the methods and materials. Is it luaun or pine ply?

Jaz

analogmusicman · 01-09-2013, 10:38 PM

Jaz,
it looks like regular pine 1/4 ply. if I left it,I'd screw everything down nice and tight, then I'd lay on "ditra" using a modified thin set, then my tile would go on using un-modified thinset.

btw: what's a "toe-kick saw"?

tnx,

JazMan · 01-09-2013, 10:59 PM

Quote:

what's a "toe-kick saw"?

It's the most dangerous tool ever devised.

Jaz

analogmusicman · 01-10-2013, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazMan

It's the most dangerous tool ever devised.

Jaz

I can see that in the wrong hands (like mine

),there dould be another "Texas chain saw massacre"...in colorado)