Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Flooring

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-21-2008, 01:18 PM   #16
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,264
Rewards Points: 0
Share |
Default

Finishing Basement, carpet install order?


HomeDepot23:

I don't know what happened in your case. However, my experience has been that with any solution dyed fiber, bleach is not a problem if used carefully and appropriately.

I know that if I were to buy a nylon carpet, I would make sure it was solution dyed so that I could remove stains from it with bleach. To my way of thinking, that's a far better solution than DuPont has managed to come up with whereby I pay $45 per square yard for their "StainMaster" carpet and have to follow special procedures to clean it for fear of voiding my warranty, and then I have to baby it because it will still stain if I spill the wrong stuff on it.

I'd rather have a carpet I don't have to baby and that I can use bleach on to eliminate any stains. That fits my lifestyle much better.


Last edited by Nestor_Kelebay; 07-21-2008 at 01:20 PM.
Nestor_Kelebay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2008, 05:25 PM   #17
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 94
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Finishing Basement, carpet install order?


Nestor. It sounds like CCarlisle answered what happened in my case.

The only argument I have with the solution dyed is that there is just so few attractive solution dyed carpet out there. So much of it is commercial and most of us don't want commercial.

My first carpet was a 48oz Monsanto "wear dated" silver label, so it was pretty much was like a DuPont "stainmaster". It lasted from 1989 until we had a flood from a hurricane in 2000. We were sorry to see it go. We vacuumed twice a week and occasionally cleaned it ourselves with "host" dry cleaning. Eventually, we got too busy to vacuum twice per week and saw the pile suffer.

We replaced it with a no name brand frieze by Mohawk. We hardly look after it. But it is doing well. We will probably change in 2 or 3 years.

We have no stains that show at all.
HomeDepot23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2008, 05:29 PM   #18
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 94
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Finishing Basement, carpet install order?


CCarlisle. Technically a berber is any carpet with flecks in it. So actually solid color loop pile carpets are not berber.

But everyone just calls looped carpet that isn't commercial, berber.

You should find nylons less than $50.

PET is technically a polyester not an olefin (polypropelene). I have never seen a PET polyester, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.
HomeDepot23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2008, 06:24 PM   #19
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,264
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Finishing Basement, carpet install order?


Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeDepot23 View Post
PET is technically a polyester not an olefin (polypropelene). I have never seen a PET polyester, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.
PET stands for PolyEthylene Teraphthalate, and it's the plastic that soft drink bottles are made of. My understanding is that NOWADAYS, virtually all polyester carpet is made from PET plastic from recycled soft drink bottles.

http://pslc.ws/macrog/pet.htm

The reason why is because in order for a plastic to be rated as "food grade" so that it can be used to make food containers, it has to have a very low level of impurities. So, using recycled soft drink bottles as the feedstock for polyester carpet fiber is a win-win situation. The carpet manufacturer gets a high purity plastic dirt cheap, and the soft drink bottles end up on someone's floor rather than in the landfill.

Last edited by Nestor_Kelebay; 07-21-2008 at 06:30 PM.
Nestor_Kelebay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2008, 06:29 PM   #20
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 94
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Finishing Basement, carpet install order?


I tried to stop my Dad from installing a PET carpet in his house. He could never keep it clean and stains were not easy to remove.

it wasn't even soft like my nylon carpets.
HomeDepot23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2008, 10:58 PM   #21
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,264
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Finishing Basement, carpet install order?


Polyester is neither the strongest fiber used to make carpet, nor is it the least expensive fiber used to make carpet. Consequently, polyester is neither the most durable carpet, nor the cheapest carpet. As such, it has trouble finding a marketing niche to fit into.

It's probably the most environmentally "green" carpet because it's made from stuff that would otherwise go to the landfills. But, few people base their interior decorating decisions on saving the planet. If they did, polyester would probably be a lot more popular.

Last edited by Nestor_Kelebay; 07-21-2008 at 11:02 PM.
Nestor_Kelebay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2008, 07:04 AM   #22
Member
 
ccarlisle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 1,889
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Finishing Basement, carpet install order?


"Technically a berber is any carpet with flecks in it. So actually solid color loop pile carpets are not berber. "

Huh?

Flecks can be put into almost any carpet fibre and the reason they are is to hide stains. Flecks have nothing to do with weaves. "Berber" is a weave - not a colour or description of the look of a carpet. Perhaps it is in sales lingo, but not technically.

"Host" carpet cleaning is the trade-marked utilisation of a dry, almost powdered, cleaning compound that is subsequently vacuumed off the carpet. Somewhat similar to baking soda "Carpet Fresh" applications for consumers. Trouble is, it doesn't work very well.

I would even venture as far as to say that Host-cleaned carpets will eventually degrade much faster and lead to replacement sooner than had the same carpet been properly cleaned. If you had ever seen the bottom of a Host carpet, you'd understand what I'm saying.

"PET" is a 'polyester', chemically speaking...as Nestor pointed out. Not related neither to polyethylene nor to polypropylene - apart from the fact that they are polymers and "plastics".
__________________
“The average American woman is about 25 pounds heavier than she was in 1960...Recognizing obesity as a disease will help change the way the medical community tackles this complex issue that affects approximately 1 in 3 Americans,”
ccarlisle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2008, 10:08 AM   #23
Below Grader
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Seymour
Posts: 68
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Finishing Basement, carpet install order?


Here's a thought. I think that just as important as the choice of carpets, is the choice of what are you going to lay under it, when it comes to basement finishing. Or maybe even more important, because your choice of sub flooring will actually determine how long the carpet on top of it will last.
Even if your basement is dry at this point, keep in mind that basements are prone to water accidents, plumbing and water heater leaks for example. If you are going for the carpet, you want to make sure that it will stay dry and mold free.
You need a non organic, 100% waterproof solution if you really want some peace of mind on the long run.
I suggest this product:
http://www.totalbasementfinishing.co...loor-tiles.php

It is an interlocking tile sub floor system, specifically designed for basements, that can be laid directly over the concrete, with no need for adhesives.
They also offer finished all in one systems, including carpeted tiles that need no sub floor. The advantage of these is that should a piece get damaged or worn you can just replace it with no need to disturb the other tiles.
CyFree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2008, 06:52 PM   #24
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 94
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Finishing Basement, carpet install order?


Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 77

My Photos

"Technically a berber is any carpet with flecks in it. So actually solid color loop pile carpets are not berber. "

Huh?


Carlisle. I respectfully disagree.

1. Look up Berber in Wikipedia.

2. Host. I have had many success stories with the product. Of course I have seen host at the bottom of carpets. I've laid a lot of carpet in my life. I will grant you that excessive use of Host will cause a softening of the backing. But I have never seen a carpet destroyed by Host. The same cannot be said of "chem-dry", Bonnet cleaning or steam cleaning. I have seen hapless operators ruin carpets with these products. Even a moron would be hard pressed to hurt the carpet with Host.

It is unfair to say my original carpet would have lasted longer with a different method as it was doing well until it was flooded.

Unless you are talking about my present carpet, which has 2 years in my opinion left. That would be unfair too, as I am embarrassed to say, hasn't been cleaned yet.

Or, perhaps, you were talking about my parents PET carpet. That was cleand using different methods. Nothing touched it.

3 Finally PET. I do agree that it is not quite a polyester. But this is its closest relative, or else why would the mills' samples say PET polyester

HomeDepot23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2008, 07:33 AM   #25
Member
 
ccarlisle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 1,889
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Finishing Basement, carpet install order?


I don't want this thread to become a contest, and I will check my facts on "berber" carpet...my sources are the CRI - Carpet and Rug Institute - which oversees the entire carpet industry and the IICRC - the Institute for Inspection, Cleaning and Restoration Certification - which oversees all the people who work in that industry and of which I am a member with 5 certifications in this specific area.

I don't put much stock into Wiki definitions...

It all comes down to the workers having to know their trade; restoration professionals cannot be in doubt about the tools of their trade nor of the methods to be used in different situations, nor indeed of the items upon which theese tools are to be used. So we all know carpets and upholstery fabrics and the various methods out there used to 'restore' them. And the consensus of opinions are backed by scientific research into methods and ways of doing just that: restoring...so much so that there are not only standards for doing the work, but a list of approved suppliers of materials we use. That's called the CRI "Seal of Approval".

I did learn something from all this and I stand coprrected on my thinking that a "cut pile berber" didn't exist. Well it does. But that doesn;t alter the weaving process that gives the name 'berber' to a style of carpet. And I maintain that "flecks in a carpet do not a berber make" - just based upon the assertion that flecks of colour can be put into almost any type of carpet of any fiber - but that doesn't make them a "berber".

If you have seen Host remnants at the bottom of a carpet, one could ask what they are doing there- and isn't excessive foreign matter in the carpet a prime reason for it's deterioration?

Did you know that Home Depot owns "Chem-Dry"...and that Chem-Dry is reported to be the largest carpet cleaner in the US? did you know that Chem-Dry uses hot water extraction now to clean their carpets? whereas before they used a bonnet cleaning operation (and still do).

I would venture to say that hot water extraction is used by 75-80% of the professional carpet and upholstery cleaners in the US. I would also say that less than 2% use Host. Are all these people, who probably number in the 50,000 range, doing damage to carpets? If hot water extraction as a cleaning method is well represented on the CRI Seal of Approval, why isn't Host?

I'll leave this disussion for now until I find out that my definitions correspond are wrong. And who knows...
__________________
“The average American woman is about 25 pounds heavier than she was in 1960...Recognizing obesity as a disease will help change the way the medical community tackles this complex issue that affects approximately 1 in 3 Americans,”

Last edited by ccarlisle; 07-23-2008 at 07:35 AM.
ccarlisle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2008, 05:22 PM   #26
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 94
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Finishing Basement, carpet install order?


"Are all these people, who probably number in the 50,000 range, doing damage to carpets?"

No. I said I had seen a lot of damage done by hapless people in the industries. I'm sure there are many people out there who don't run water temps to 180 plus degrees or saturate the carpet with soap and then leave it in the rug.

I do know that HD owns chem-dry. I didn't know it was now steam cleaning. I knew it as a bonnet method, which I am not as fond of.

I agree that we can't just call every carpet under the sun with a fleck in it, a berber. This is why the CRI as you cited or the carpet industry in general has pretty well confined it to loop pile residential and some friezes. I stated that pretty much in my intial post.

Why is Host not recognised by CRI or manufacturers like Shaw? It is a good question, because, like I said, it has done some amazing things on carpets I never would have thought would come clean. Host themselves are pretty well bewildered by it all.
HomeDepot23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2008, 06:17 PM   #27
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,264
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Finishing Basement, carpet install order?


I have my own extractor, and have never been a fan of this "Dry Carpet Cleaning" process. As far as I'm concerned, the more stuff you sprinkle onto your carpet, the more soil there is in that carpet that needs to be cleaned out... even if the stuff you're sprinkling on and bonnet scrubbing into the carpet is supposed to clean your carpet.

I firmly believe that the best method of maintaining a carpet is regular vaccuuming with a good agitating vaccuum cleaner, and periodic shampooing of the carpet to remove dried up liquids spilt on the carpet.
Nestor_Kelebay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2008, 06:58 PM   #28
Member
 
ccarlisle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 1,889
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Finishing Basement, carpet install order?


Some Chem-Dry franchises use what most people would call 'bonnet cleaning' in that they spray a liquid onto the carpet, and then use a buffer with a cotton bonnet to dry it. The twist that ChemDry use is that the machine that spray their carbonated solution onto the carpet is partly a portable extractor.

But nowadays, they are selling steam truckmounts to their new franchisees, and although they are using the same sodium bicarbonate/citric acid solutions to make carbonate bubbles, the process of injecting, then extracting with a wand, is the very process they lambasted for years and years...

180 degree F at the hose is relatively cold for those large gas-guzzling truckmounts, or as they would have you believe.... May be right tho'...

I think that the name berber has gone the way some names go: generic. It may well be that people call berber any carpet that has flecks in it. It's probably just simpler. I did find out that cut pile berbers were an invention of the berber manufacturers and that they are mostly nylon...I didn't know that.

One thing I do know: all these methods (Host etc) are like the tools I have in my toolbox in my van. I have several tools that I can use when the occasion calls for it...cleaning anything is no different. Even marble polishing!
__________________
“The average American woman is about 25 pounds heavier than she was in 1960...Recognizing obesity as a disease will help change the way the medical community tackles this complex issue that affects approximately 1 in 3 Americans,”
ccarlisle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2008, 07:08 PM   #29
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 94
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Finishing Basement, carpet install order?


Great stuff. I don't know if we have helped the OP or simply confused.
HomeDepot23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2008, 07:21 PM   #30
Member
 
ccarlisle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 1,889
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Finishing Basement, carpet install order?


Yup, good thread! We'll talk soon I'm sure.

And poor OP...he's probably set sail and is long gone!

__________________
“The average American woman is about 25 pounds heavier than she was in 1960...Recognizing obesity as a disease will help change the way the medical community tackles this complex issue that affects approximately 1 in 3 Americans,”
ccarlisle is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Carpet cleaning - sump water n0c7 Flooring 17 08-29-2011 07:04 AM
Gaps at baseboards after carpet install cometbus Flooring 9 10-01-2007 07:48 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.