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-   -   Faulty engineered wood floor installation? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f5/faulty-engineered-wood-floor-installation-50638/)

bobbo 08-10-2009 04:47 PM

Faulty engineered wood floor installation?
 
I bought 1/2" thick 3 1/2 wide with random length Brazilian engineered and hired a contractor to install by glue over concrete. I thought he was going to float the floor but he didnt do it. Instead he said he would use more glue. After it was done, the next day I noticed there are numerous hollow sounds....this means that the glue is not in contact with the wood in this area (10 different locations in a 300 sf room)......the job looks fine but I am concerned with a few months down the road........Is there anything he can do to repair this? This problem could have been easily prevented if he had floated the floor....so I am kind of upset.

Thank you in advance for your response.

Tess 08-10-2009 09:05 PM

You hired someone to glue but you wanted him to float? I'm confused.

vsheetz 08-10-2009 09:48 PM

By floating the floor I think you are talking about leveling the floor using a self-leveling compound. Yes, the floor should have been checked for level and correct action taken as needed before installing the flooring was installed.

Hopefully someone knowing more than I will have a solution for you other than removing and reinstalling the floor, or just having to live with it.

Floorwizard 08-11-2009 02:04 PM

glued to concrete....whew.
bad news.
I would wonder if anyone knows what the moisture is in it.....
floor should be floated over 6 mil poly if it's engineered....that's just the best way period.

bobbo 08-11-2009 03:11 PM

Sorry for the confusion....he should have level the floor for flatness.

Floorwizard 08-12-2009 01:40 PM

When you level the floor, how much water are you now adding?
Then you glue to that?

Wood Floor Guy 08-20-2009 02:41 PM

Hollow sounds
 
May not be that bad. Hollow sounds are caused by any/all of the following:

1. Uneven sublfoor
2. Dirty subfloor didn't allow the glue to bond to it
3. Worn trowel which didn't apply enough adhesive
4. Waiting too long to apply the wood to the adhesive and it skinned over.
5. Walking on the floor too early and breaking the bond.

Regardless of the cause, it may get worse, and it may not. The only way to quiet it down is to inject adhesive into the hollow spot. Dri-Tac makes a really good injector kit that works pretty well.

If it makes you feel any better, had the installer floated the floor there would have been alot more hollow sounding areas!

premium floors 08-20-2009 04:00 PM

brazil
 
First off, congrads on your flooring! I think you have choosen the perfect material :thumbsup: little pricey, though, worth it.
I do not understand why the installer opted not to mechanically engineer and level your floor? His decision had one of three factors time, money or experince involved. Depending how much traffic your floor gets, sooner or later it will contour to the inperfections of you sub-floor (Not good). I also agree that the floor should be repaired via: injections of wood adhesive .

ptspurlock 08-20-2009 09:59 PM

bobbo-I agree with wood floor guy for the most part. However, injection requires many hole's be drilled threw the surface of the wood to inject. You probably could not inject enough product to eliminate the hollow spots.

Most factory specs for an engineered floor has an out of level tolerance of no more than 1/8'' in 10' in any direction.

I have installed many self leveling underlayments to correct the concrete to meet these specs, so I would not have hollow-spot issues like you are dealing with.

floorwizard this is fyi. self leveling self drying underlayments will except most common floor covering installations in just 18 hours and glue down hardwoods in 25 hours and never heard of gluing an engineered floor to a 6 mil poly.

The floorwizard must have engineered wood confused with the low budget floating floors systems that are all the rave (puke)

I have installed dead level self leveling underlayments in MRI rooms requiring them so don't believe a self leveling underlayment installed by a pro would leave hollow spots.

I just installed 6,500 sq.ft of self leveling underlayment and the next day we started the installation of 6,500 sq.ft of Armstrong pattern-plus (has a 6'' width) over this underlayment, not a hollow spot, not even a punch list.
[IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/PAULSP%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-5.png[/IMG]


Paul Spurlock
Owner; http://www.signature-concrete-stain.com/

ptspurlock 08-20-2009 11:23 PM

Faulty engineered wood floor installation?
 
I tried to post images of an engineered wood floor with a glue down installation on a self leveling underlayment with the above post, the links did not work. here goes again.

This project was for Sephoras at Knoxville's West Town mall.
Paul Spurlock
Owner; http://www.signature-concrete-stain.com/



http://www.signature-concrete-stain....nt-under-wood3


http://www.signature-concrete-stain....-wood-sephoras


http://www.signature-concrete-stain....nt-under-wood2

ptspurlock 08-20-2009 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ptspurlock (Post 317273)
I tried to post images of an engineered wood floor with a glue down installation on a self leveling underlayment with the above post, the links did not work. here goes again.

This project was for Sephoras at Knoxville's West Town mall.
Paul Spurlock
Owner; http://www.signature-concrete-stain.com/



http://www.signature-concrete-stain....nt-under-wood3


http://www.signature-concrete-stain....-wood-sephoras


http://www.signature-concrete-stain....nt-under-wood2

Sorry the image links don't work

Floorwizard 08-21-2009 01:27 PM

Quote:

floorwizard this is fyi. self leveling self drying underlayments will except most common floor covering installations in just 18 hours
So your saying all the moisture is out of the product in 18 hours?
all that water?
Doesn't it depend on thickness layed?

Quote:

and never heard of gluing an engineered floor to a 6 mil poly.
Neither have I. But have you ever heard of floating an engineered?
please re-read my post.

Quote:

The floorwizard must have engineered wood confused with the low budget floating floors systems that are all the rave (puke)
Why would you say that unless you feel an engineered floor cannot be floated over 6 mil poly.

Fact is: the best installation of a wood floor with the least possibility of failure is floating over poly. (concrete installations)
I am not saying it's stupid to go any other way, but read the manufacturers recommendations very carefully.
They are the ones with the final word anyway.

ptspurlock 08-21-2009 10:40 PM

I mostly use Ardex self leveling/self drying underlayments, for example K-15, walk on in 3 hours install floor covering after 16 hours. The water used in the mix is chemically linked or spoken for. The description of self drying. Not all underlayments are self drying. K-15 can be applied up to 21/2" and 5" with aggregate and floor covering can be installed in 16 hours.

Here is another piece of info. Ardex SD-L self leveling self drying underlayment is a self drying self leveling underlayment for same day installation of flooring. Curing time before covering or sealing, when hard (2-3 hours), installs up to 1/2"

ptspurlock 08-21-2009 11:01 PM

The engineered wood I was describing was a tong and grove engineered hardwood not recommended for a floating installation. They are not designed with a click lock system.

Since 1975 I have installed many projects with Armstrong pattern plus, Bruce engineered floors and glue down was the only installation method. I did some research after your post and found that pattern plus now allows a floating installation. Perhaps you were describing a laminate engineered floor which requires a poly pad, and now can be found with a true wood wear layer.

Floorwizard 08-22-2009 12:17 PM

Quote:

The engineered wood I was describing was a tong and grove engineered hardwood not recommended for a floating installation. They are not designed with a click lock system.
They don't have to be a click lock. Anderson engineered is tounge and groove but I float that with flexible adhesive called Duck glue.
But if the manufacturer says no...then that's it.
Quote:

Not all underlayments are self drying.
oh...your original post was not specific. it was more general. thanks for explaining.


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