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Old 04-06-2008, 08:34 PM   #16
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Failing Grout?


Progress Report,
2 hours with a Dremel tool in one hand and the shop vac in the other, grout removed from 1/2 bath, about 5 X 5 area. I was surprised at the different consistency as I removed the old grout. Some was hard and I really had to work at grinding it out. Other was soft and the carbide tool just zipped right through it. Is this normal? If this is consistent with the rest of the floor, could that be my root cause for the grout failing? Just poor mixing of the original grout?
Got the SpectraLock Pro Grout that was recommended. Called 3 tile places asking for epoxy grout and they didn't know what I was talking about. Went to the the SpectraLock site on the computer and found the nearest distributor. Toughest part was the wife picking out a color. After that - mix part A with part B, add part C and you're in business. Took me about an hour to work the grout in, thought the mix could have been a little thinner though. Followed the directions for clean up, using the chemicals provided and the finished project looks great. Now I'll just have to see how it holds up before tackling the rest.
Sealing? Does this type of grout need to be sealed?
Thanks to all for your input!!

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Old 04-06-2008, 08:57 PM   #17
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Failing Grout?


some times the floor joists are not rate to hold the additional weight. sometimes you can install bridging between joists to stop deflrction.
3/4 sub floor with 1/2 durock or fiber board ( cement board ) is standard practice.
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Old 04-06-2008, 10:04 PM   #18
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Failing Grout?


Ed,

Epoxy grout do NOT get sealed. Doesn't need it, won't take it.

Jason,

Bridging does help a bit, but it is standard procedure, not anything extraordinary.

A floor consisting of 3/4" plywood is usually sufficient for a tile installation. But that's only part of the requirements. We also need to know the joists size, type, species, grade, spacing and unsupported span. We need a deflection rating of no more than L360 for ceramic and porcelain, and L720 for natural stone tile. In addition, the CBU add very little to the subfloor stiffness. It also MUST be set into fresh thinset mortar to fully support the sheets, then fastened, taped etc. Sometimes that isn't done.

For example Ed's joists probably meet the standards, but just barely. If the joists are Southern Pine he meets by a hair. If most any other species, a hair short of L360. Then there is a possibility that a few may be weak or a few places in the subfloor may not be installed right?

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Old 04-07-2008, 08:52 AM   #19
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Failing Grout?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud Cline View Post
"Can those"!!!! Meaning me.

This has been common knowledge in the industry for many many years. I'd be happy to look it up for you and point you to the page and paragraph but the truth is you can do this as easily as I can. Go to your Handbook and take a look.

AH!!!! "What Handbook"(?) you say?
Gap for what purpose is what I asking. Yes, gap for caulk between dissimilar surfaces like between tub and floor. I'm good with that.

The implication that prompted my question is that a tile floor will expand and contract and that a gap for expansion is needed. I cant get my head around that concept and want to learn. I cant fathom a tile floor, set in thinset, on backer, also set in thinset and screwed, would expand/contract any. I build furnitre and am familiar with the principles of wood movement due to humidity changes. I also understand some materials expand and contract due to temp changes. How would tile expand and contract? Temperature? Humidity? Some other factor?
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Old 04-07-2008, 04:34 PM   #20
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Failing Grout?


One more observation from checking out my floor - in total we've done a rather large area - kitchen, dinning room, foyer, hallway, laundry room and 1/2 bath, all the same 16" tile, all continuous one room to the next. While I do have several areas where the grout has failed, I do not have even 1 tile that has cracked or broken. With tiles that big, if my substrate was marginal, wouldn't I have at least some broken tiles somewhere? I'm not disagreeing that the substrate should have been done differently, I guess I'm just wondering if my major problem was/is just a lousy job of mixing and applying the original grout?
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Old 04-07-2008, 04:55 PM   #21
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Quote:
I guess I'm just wondering if my major problem was/is just a lousy job of mixing and applying the original grout?
From everything you had described so far, this is probably the case. IMO
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Old 04-07-2008, 05:40 PM   #22
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Quote:
With tiles that big, if my substrate was marginal, wouldn't I have at least some broken tiles somewhere? I'm not disagreeing that the substrate should have been done differently,
Ed the structure can have some flex in it and smoke the grout without breaking tiles. The tiles are technically independent units each one in and of its own self and the grout would be the weakest element of the assembly. Any flex may be absorbed by the grout fill and at some point just simply give up.
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Old 04-07-2008, 05:43 PM   #23
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Quote:
I cant fathom a tile floor, set in thinset, on backer, also set in thinset and screwed, would expand/contract any.
You got it! Tile can move due to thermal expansion and also moisture absorption.

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