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Old 07-11-2008, 12:37 PM   #1
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Failed ceramic floor---need options


When I purchased my house, there was a thin layer of carpeting on the kitchen floor. Not knowing better, I decided to add ceramic tile. First I placed cement board down (without thinset) and screwed the cement board down. After that, I put mortar, tile and then grout down. I know I made at least 2 mistakes--probably many more. Failure to remove the carpet and no thinset under my cement board have led to numerous cracks and whole sections of tile coming loose.

To make my situation worse, my cabinet maker put my base cabinets over this floor.

Is there any flooring out there for my situation? I was looking at Allure flooring because I thought I could just remove my ceramic tiles, sand down the cement board, and leave my cabinets in place. Any suggestions would be extremely appreciated.

I am trying to avoid taking the cement board out which will lead to removing that carpet beneath as well as removal of my cabinets.

Thanks!

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Old 07-11-2008, 09:17 PM   #2
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YOU DID WHAT????

YOU sir, are grounded and must write 500 times......

We do NOT install ANYTHING over carpeting......EVER!

Jaz

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Old 07-12-2008, 06:44 AM   #3
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JazMan,

It's Ms. not Mr. I have a friend who had done 2 tile jobs in his house, so I relied on his advice in doing my own job. I wish I had hired a skilled tile person, but I can't do anything about that now.

Is there any type of flooring I could place on top of cement board if I removed the tiles? They are all loose anyway, so it wouldn't be much trouble. I am trying to leave my cabinets in place with the tile underneath them, because I have a tile backsplash and I think it may get damaged if I remove the countertop. Also my height would be different and would create space below my backsplash.

Thanks for any help you can give. I need it!!

Jazzraison
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Old 07-12-2008, 10:59 AM   #4
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Why add more mistakes to an already totally unconventional situation?

Get rid of all those layers and get back down to the original subfloor, then go from there. Actually the cabinets should also be removed and reinstalled after correcting those issues. I can't imagine what type of a loser cabinet maker would even do such a thing.

If you are paying bottom line prices for what you do then you are certainly getting your monies-worth.
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Old 07-12-2008, 11:11 AM   #5
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Bud,

Thanks for the response. That confirms what I thought, but was hoping for an easier/faster out. What is the best way for me to remove the cement board? It is screwed into the floor.

Thanks,

Jazzraison
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Old 07-12-2008, 11:18 AM   #6
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The more expedient way is to use a large pry-bar and go after the cement board breaking it up as necessary. Once that is done the screws can then be broken off (probably at the subfloor below the carpet) by using a pair of heavy pliers (channel-locks). I wouldn't waste any time trying to unscrew the cement board or removing the screws by unscrewing them.

Then the carpet removal can be addressed.
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Old 07-13-2008, 09:42 AM   #7
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Hello Jazzraison, Hey Bud.

Jaz, I am in the Louisville area my office and showroom is right over in Jeffersonville.

I would get one of those big hammer drills with a chisel end from Home Depot rental center and go to town It will save you a lot of time on your removal.
I have seen this same thing on a job in Sellersburg I still have the pics somewhere.

When you get ready to relay it contact me I will introduce you to Ditra. I will also give you any advice you need for the relay.If somebody buys thier tile from me I will rent them a wetsaw very cheap

Ditra is fine looking Orange lady with dovetailed skin. She is applied over the wood instead of backerboad in prep for the ceramic tile.
The link to my website is in my profile.
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Old 07-13-2008, 10:00 AM   #8
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Thank you for your response. I am glad to know you are close to Louisville! I think I found your website. It looks like you carry many additional products other than tile. Do you have a product I could use in my situation? I was going to take up the ceramic tiles except for those under the cabinets. I was interested in the Adura or Metroflor. Or any other product I float on top of my cement board.

Thank you very much.

Jazzraison
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Old 07-13-2008, 10:47 AM   #9
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The adura is a subgrade product compared to what I sell it has a 4Mil wearlayer, I can and have ripped it with my bare hands. I had a customer out off La Grange Rd purchase some,(we had sold him a kerdi shower kit.)
he had already bought the floor.
I grabbed a piece of it to compare it to the Konecto I was thrilled! It is junk, I was afraid it was taking part of the Konecto market but it cannot it is to cheap.
Now all I have to do is get that information out to my clients.
"You get what you pay for."

When you compare the two it is like daylight to dusk.
The Konecto cost more but how much more is quaiity worth?
The Konecto will work.
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Old 07-13-2008, 11:11 AM   #10
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Will it work on top of my cement board? Will I have to sand all of the mortar off so I doesn't show through?

Thanks again!
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Old 07-13-2008, 11:57 AM   #11
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UNBELIEVABLE!!!

I now see how all of this happened to begin with.
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Old 07-13-2008, 01:08 PM   #12
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Relax Bud, if he changes to a vinyl plank what is the difference?

Sure the carpet is still under the CBU and the better choice is to remove the cbu but it is not my call to tell him what he can do in his house.

I am pretty sure he laid it over the cusionback carpet that will haunted the industry for years and there is a layer of foam that will never come off that wood without great distress or great damage of the wood.

Bud,
As remember from your past post at JBs doghouse and floorinstaller.com you suggested modified under Ditra and on top of it.

If we disagree with the book rules it does make us less of installers.
I disagree with Schulter on setting unmodified behind the Kerdi.I and my findings are based on "hands on" actual experience.

If we try help a client resolve an issue and save them money and time
is it an error?

You must understand the floating vinyl plank product/process before you disagree with any application.

Jaz, you want the flattest surface you can get, the complete removal is the best option but if you chose to do it this way the Konecto will work
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Old 07-13-2008, 01:25 PM   #13
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"Jaz" (me) is over there with Bud. It's "Jazz" that is seeking assistance.

Jaz
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Old 07-13-2008, 01:26 PM   #14
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I bow to your superior knowledge 26 sir.

raison,
Just keep heaping additional floor coverings over that carpet and see what you get. NOTHING (no floor-covering) can be successfully installed over carpet. The fact that it has CBU on top of it makes matters even worse. Follow the above advice and you'll be back here inside of three months crying like a baby because you have another failed floor.

Do what you want my friend.
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Old 07-13-2008, 04:13 PM   #15
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Bud
Your sarcasam is duelly noted I see you have not changed much.

I still consider you to be one of the few pros out there that I actually value thier opinion.
At least your not one of them self serving arrogant chumps that I see on other boards.

In such:
The problem with the industry is too many people have isolated themselves to one thought process and they cannot achieve a higher education nor are they willing to attempt to perceive things in anothers view.
This why many tilesetters will not use Ditra, they are stuck in thier ways and therefore they have fallen behind the times are still struggling with CBUs and pulling showerpans instead of using the Kerdi Systems.

Do you realize there are "professional" tilesetters in Arizona that scoff at
Ditra then use upside down pvc vinyl as crack isolation memebrane!!

There are still builders in Kentucky and Indiana that swear by laying ceramic over luann!!

We must expand out knowledge to include whole of the issue.

I can argue with the best of tilesetters on issues. (And have)
I can do the same with the wood floor gurus. (And listened)
I offer years of experience with carpet and vinyl and still ecounter jobs I have never seen before.

Each time we encounter a situation where our knowledge is limited it does as well to privy to all the facts.

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