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Old 03-19-2012, 08:52 PM   #46
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Is this enough subflooring support?


I say that that is a lot of work-around to do things that might work.

In my opinion, you add support under the joists, or you add support on the floor. Sistering, cross bracing, etc may work but both of this rely on the strength of the original joists, which aren't strong enough to begin with.

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Old 03-19-2012, 09:13 PM   #47
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Is this enough subflooring support?


Sounds like you would be saving yourself a lot of headaches by just adding the 1/2" layer and stepping up up your floor like Jazz and others recommended. I don't see what the big deal is unless you have a low ceiling like I do in my house. If there is a Wal Mart near you there is a good chance that their entry way has tile and is stepped up from the surrounding floor. I know the ones near me are. It doesn't look bad or unprofessional if you use the appropriate transitional strip between the two floors.
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Old 03-19-2012, 09:43 PM   #48
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Is this enough subflooring support?


Tina,

X-bracing, aka bridging, is the common thing to do and is not considered an "extra" feature. You need it, it stabilizes the joists and "shares" weight with the adjoining joist.

Sistering is a good way to stiffen the joists. However, your joists system is plenty stiff enough, even for stone since the 2x8's span less than 7'.

So, the joists deflection in OK, but the in-between-the joists deflection in the subfloor is not OK. With natural stone you need 2 layers of ply or OSB to be better than L720 deflection rating.

Michelle,

You said;

Quote:
joists, which aren't strong enough to begin with.
Are we reading the same specs? I think Tina has 2x8 - 16" oc - spanning less than 7'. If so those joists are at close to L1000.

Jaz
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Old 03-19-2012, 10:27 PM   #49
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Is this enough subflooring support?


Final thought then is to add an additional layer of plywood,
Do i have anything between the layers..glue, waterproofing?

Any finishing treatment or protectant to the new plywood layer?

Do I add cement board as well to the additional plywood?
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Old 03-19-2012, 10:30 PM   #50
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Is this enough subflooring support?


When we started this thread, it was reccommended that the hardwood flooring had to be removed...The flooring I have is 5/8" thick, oak...What if I sanded it down to a porous surface to act as that additional 1/2" plywood?
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Old 03-19-2012, 10:33 PM   #51
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Is this enough subflooring support?


Tina,

Quote:
Do i have anything between the layers..glue, waterproofing?
Absolutely not.

Quote:
Do I add cement board as well to the additional plywood?
Yes, either that or Ditra. Didn't we go over this already? Ask again if you have questions or wanna know how to install them.

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Old 03-19-2012, 10:37 PM   #52
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Is this enough subflooring support?


Quote:
When we started this thread, it was reccommended that the hardwood flooring had to be removed...The flooring I have is 5/8" thick, oak...What if I sanded it down to a porous surface to act as that additional 1/2" plywood?
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

I guess you didn't understand why the hardwood has to go. It's too unstable. It shrinks. It expands. Causes problems. How are hardwood planks gonna act like plywood?

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Old 03-20-2012, 07:56 AM   #53
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Is this enough subflooring support?


Jaz,
OK...just checking.
Remove hardwood, replace with plywood
Now, on top of that new plywood...do i use cement board and if so what thickness

When adding that new layer plywood, do you suggest any sealant, under layer?

Can this new layer be added with glue and screws or just glue?

Jaz, you are a big help...but you are going to wear out the "NO" on your keyboard
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Old 03-20-2012, 08:13 AM   #54
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Is this enough subflooring support?


A couple of questions for all the pros

Ditra...never have used it, read some reviews. Is it a product you would reccommend for a high traffic area like a kitchen?

Grout - will have just an 1/8" grout spacing...do you suggest sanded or unsanded for granite tile with this small a spacing?

I can see the light !!
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Old 03-20-2012, 08:53 AM   #55
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Is this enough subflooring support?


Quote:
Originally Posted by TinaB
A couple of questions for all the pros

Ditra...never have used it, read some reviews. Is it a product you would reccommend for a high traffic area like a kitchen?

Grout - will have just an 1/8" grout spacing...do you suggest sanded or unsanded for granite tile with this small a spacing?

I can see the light !!
Ditra will be fine if placed down correctly in my opinion.

http://floorelf.com/using-the-correct-type-of-grout

This link states that sanded would be right for sanded if your lines are of 1/8" or larger but also states that could also scratch the granite layer of the tile.
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Old 03-20-2012, 09:03 AM   #56
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Is this enough subflooring support?


Quote:
Originally Posted by TinaB View Post
A couple of questions for all the pros

Ditra...never have used it, read some reviews. Is it a product you would reccommend for a high traffic area like a kitchen?

Grout - will have just an 1/8" grout spacing...do you suggest sanded or unsanded for granite tile with this small a spacing?

I can see the light !!
Ditra will be fine

1/8" grout should be unsanded.
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Old 03-20-2012, 01:17 PM   #57
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Is this enough subflooring support?


Tina,

Quote:
on top of that new plywood...do i use cement board and if so what thickness
Yes, concrete backer board or a membrane such as Ditra. The backer boards made for floors are 1/4, 5/16 or 3/8" thick. You are free to use the 1/2" too if you wanna be higher. They are all installing into fresh thin set mortar, fastened and all seams taped.

Quote:
Can this new layer (of plywood underlayment) be added with glue and screws or just glue?
No........ You left out the other choice. Screws or nails only, fastened into the subfloor only.

Ditra would be a smart move. It's a premium method and as I already stated it's thinner too.

Grout, I would go a little narrower than 1/8" and use unsanded. The chamfered edges of your tiles will make the grout wider than the space between the tiles.

JetSwet;

Quote:
Ditra will be fine if placed down correctly in my opinion.
I think everything will work fine if placed down correctly. Why would anyone expect it to work if not done right? But, it's difficult to mess up, imo.

Jaz
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Old 03-20-2012, 01:29 PM   #58
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Is this enough subflooring support?


http://www.schluter.com/media/DitraHandbook.pdf

Read over the handbook, put it down the way they call for it. It's simple but yet nothing is to simple nor easy when it comes to tiling.
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Old 03-21-2012, 05:32 PM   #59
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Is this enough subflooring support?


My husband and i both are studying up on the Ditra. It seems to be 'state-of-the-art" for tiling.
Have some final questions on the grout.
Like Michelle, i am not particularly fond of grout, have done some 'no grout' tile walls and they turn out great!
But it seems to make sense to grout floor tile because it provides a bit of support to keep the tile from shifting even if it is a small amount.
But tell be what would happen if I did place these tiles without grout.
They are NOT champered ; they have very sharp 90 degree cuts.
I take that I should not try to leave a smooth round in the caulk, it would be better to keep it flush with the tile surface ??
When sealing grout, I have used tape to keep the sealer from getting on the tile, but that has not worked out well. Any suggestions on that.
Then finally...brand name 'toe-kick saws...I read alot about Crain, and Roberts, but when I go to the hardware store they suggest using a hobby saw....yeah, then my hand vibrates for the next two days.
Okay, going to get the tile tomorrow...looks like i'll use around 320, 12 x 12. I'll be renting a wet saw, but some of the research says an angle grinder does the job.
Lets hear what the pros have to say.
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Old 03-21-2012, 09:08 PM   #60
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Is this enough subflooring support?


Tina,

Installing tiles, especially polished granite tiles without grout is a very bad idea. Can you say unsanitary?

I have no idea why some people have all these problems with grout. If for a floor in a dry area, no reason. When people have grout problems in their shower floors the reason is usually because the shower was not built right. Usually caused by no pre-slope, long story too long for this post.

You said the tiles are not chamfered, why not, how did that happen?

Jaz

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