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Old 01-26-2014, 04:23 PM   #16
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Engineered hardwood over vinyl tile - am I being unreasonable or am I getting screwed


So if your level were a foot longer, your floor would be even less flat???

Measure flatness like this:
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Old 01-26-2014, 06:26 PM   #17
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Engineered hardwood over vinyl tile - am I being unreasonable or am I getting screwed


Holy cow! The only flooring surface you could safely install in it's current condition is carpet. Goes to show how ridiculous these installers were to even begin it.
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Old 01-26-2014, 06:35 PM   #18
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Engineered hardwood over vinyl tile - am I being unreasonable or am I getting screwed


Here's a few pics I took of the engineered floor I installed when I remodeled our bedroom last year. You can see how everything is flat and no deflections.

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Old 01-26-2014, 07:21 PM   #19
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Engineered hardwood over vinyl tile - am I being unreasonable or am I getting screwed


Yea, your joists and subfloor are not close to the recommended minimum specs for any type of flooring.

The installers should have walked on this job unless you agreed to have it fixed first. Trouble is the problem was missed and by the time they saw how bad the subfloor is they were too far along to stop. They may have thought you'd bulk at the cost of fixing it perhaps. Now they're in trouble.

You are not without fault too. Why you ask.

Because you wanted to save money and do the prep. It's possible they couldn't tell how bad your subfloor system really was when they sold you the installation. In any case, the subfloor is supposed to be presented to the installers within specs. With a floor that bad, you don't have to be a flooring installer to know it's not right.

They should have not started to install anything once they saw how bad it is though.

It's a bad situation for both you and them.

I would have handled this differently. Ok sure, you wanna save money and do the rip out, fine. Let me know when you're done and I'll come back to see if the floor is ready and make suggestions.

Some thing to consider;

Hourly Labor rates; $55.00

If you watch; $65.00

If you help; $75.00

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Old 01-26-2014, 10:12 PM   #20
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Engineered hardwood over vinyl tile - am I being unreasonable or am I getting screwed


The only prep work I agreed to do was taking off all the baseboard moulding and the old laminate floor in the main room upstairs - that's it. First I was even told that the old foam underlay can stay. Only because the subfloor was a bit squeaky and some areas felt a bit soft, I scraped the stuck foam off and added
a bunch of screws to make the boards tighter.

Thank you so much everyone for all the information.
Of course now I am smarter.
I had thought if I hire someone who is doing this kind of work for a living and has been doing it for many years and has been an established business in the community for years, they would know what to do - who am I to tell them how to do their job? I don't know anything about installing any kind of floor - if I did, I would have done it myself, but it would have taken me, by myself, so much longer, than someone who does it every day. We wanted to get it done fairly fast.
The way I see it now, is that before they started laying the floor, the first thing they should have done is to check the floor for level. At that point they should have told me, that they can't do a proper job, until I get the subfloor fixed. That was a week ago and by now I could have had it done, then the installation would have been so much easier and quicker for them too.
Now I feel I don't even want them to continue the job, even after I get the subfloor repaired properly. If they could not do a proper job so far, what else are they going to do or not do when they continue the rest of the house - only about 25% is done so far and downstairs they were going to float the floor, since they can't nail or staple it.
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Old 01-27-2014, 05:42 AM   #21
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Engineered hardwood over vinyl tile - am I being unreasonable or am I getting screwed


I agree. I would not let them finish the job. Keep the pics so that if they try to take you to court there won't be any problems. I really don't see that happening. After having the sub-floor fixed, have another store come out and inspect the work done and check the concrete for flat, also. For a floating floor there is less tolerance that than the upstairs. Usually 1/8" in 10'. This can be fixed with a modified Portland cement.
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Old 01-28-2014, 10:54 PM   #22
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Engineered hardwood over vinyl tile - am I being unreasonable or am I getting screwed


Well, a couple of days of stress, from dealing with this upsetting situation - it has been resolved, but there is no winner.
Today the owner picked up all unused flooring and tools, we shook hands and I later dropped off a few more tools that he could not get into his truck. I did not loose any money - just time and nerves!
He was going to send the guys over to rip up what they had laid (about 25%, 200 square foot), but I told him that I did not mind doing it.

Jb1234, you said that the only thing possible for this floor was carpet. I told him this, too.
You know, after these stressful last few days my wife is now actually considering exactly that.
I believe that it would be too much work and money to bring the floor up to Manningtons' tolerances. If I had all the time and money, I would take out all 5/8 floor boards and fix the joists, but the ceiling, under this wavy, sloping floor was recently insulted and dry-walled. Fixing the floor should have been our first job, when a few years ago we had all paneling removed and all wall studs were exposed.

If we go with carpet, simpler repair-work to the floor would be needed.
-we'll start looking at carpet next weekend. Depending how things go, I might still get someone to give me a quote to fix the floor.
Thanks again everyone! Your input helped me.
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Old 01-29-2014, 09:10 PM   #23
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Engineered hardwood over vinyl tile - am I being unreasonable or am I getting screwed


Glad it was resolved. Honestly it didn't end up too bad for you. The fact you aren't out any money and you became more aware of your house is huge. Good luck with everything.
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Old 01-31-2014, 02:28 PM   #24
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Engineered hardwood over vinyl tile - am I being unreasonable or am I getting screwed


Thank you very much.
Yes, it is true, I had several other situations, where we had paid the full price to a contractor and were still way off from getting the kind of product and service we had expected.
Because of the hard vinyl tiles on the lower level, we were already put into the situation, where we would now have to have a floating floor, which we never wanted.
We always wanted a nailed / stapled floor, something that makes you feel like it is a part of the house when you walk on it, not a large slab of strips of wood glued together and laid on some foam onto the floor.
It was my mistake, that I never even considered, that there may be a huge problem with the floor.
To bring our floor to within the tolerances given by Mannington, would be just too much work, also we found out, that even downstair the old subfloor needs leveling, which was suggested to be achieved by using silica sand under the foam below the floated floor. It all seemed too much - much more than we wanted or expected. We don't mind changing to a different option -
it definitly is a lot less work for me.
The other good thing is, that we don't live at that place yet.
Our goal is to move there later this year, so a bit more delay is not a huge problem.
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Old 01-31-2014, 02:54 PM   #25
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Engineered hardwood over vinyl tile - am I being unreasonable or am I getting screwed


Sand under a floor to level it
Sounds like a landscaper laying the floor.
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Old 02-01-2014, 11:41 AM   #26
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Engineered hardwood over vinyl tile - am I being unreasonable or am I getting screwed


Sand under the floor and install Unilock pavers. Ha.

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