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Old 11-03-2010, 03:12 PM   #31
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Then I'll shut up and go away.

I was told by Lumber Liquidators to condition it for 7-10 days. I did 2 weeks.

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Old 11-03-2010, 03:48 PM   #32
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Then you have no case. It is not the suppliers fault because you assumed that everything was fine. I have been installing Hardwood Flooring as a professional for over 15 years, and I can tell you honestly, that just because an Air Conditioner is running doesn't always mean that the floor will be ready for install. Also did you know that some floors can take 2-4 weeks to properly acclimate?

That is why you always do a moisture check, because on the rare occasion, a situation will emerge just like yours.

If the floor wasn't buckling out of the box, like the origianl poster, than it was a moisture related problem that you missed, because of not using a Moisture meter, and hygrometer.
That is all true!

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I was told by Lumber Liquidators to condition it for 7-10 days. I did 2 weeks.
Malkin, acclimating the product is not the only requirement for success. Initial pre-installation moisture tests are always wise and working dehumidifiers are always wise.

The name "Lumber Liquidators" should tell people something. To liquidate something means you want to get rid of it. If you hadn't been shopping THE LOWEST PRICE you wouldn't have gone to Lumber Liquidators. This is a typical "You get what you pay for" scenario I'm afraid.
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Old 11-03-2010, 10:59 PM   #33
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Machlin,

If you installed the Schon flooring you need not listen to the comments from the others. The Schon flooring(in my opinion) is poorly constructed. Every time a hardwood floor project goes awry the defense is "you did not manage moisture properly". My experience is the Schon flooring expands and contracts much more than normal hardwood flooring. I am not sure if there is a climate that it works suitably in. I acclimated mine for 2 weeks. My story goes as follows. May: Installed moisture barrier and laid floor(on 17 year old air conditioned slab in Florida). July floor buckled. Attributed this to raise in humidity in Florida. Re-laid floor. In September floor buckled again(no raise in humidity). Attributed time/humidity. Re-laid floor again. In January humidity dropped and floor separated in middle of room with 1/2-3/4 inch gap and also had 1/4 to 1/2 inch gap to wall. Since 1 year floor seems stable so maybe I will re-lay floor 1 more time. I have never heard of any flooring expanding or contracting this much. I have also never seen any other floor called "engineered" with this type of substrate. After further research I cannot find a Schon floor company and gather that Schon flooring is a product specified by LL and marketed only by LL. I chose it for the finish as I could not find a comparable finish anywhere(color and gloss). I still love the finish but the construction of this flooring is pure garbage. I cannot comment as to whether you have a case against LL or not. I did not even approach them as I expected only run-around and whining about water/moisture and improper installation. The main reason to choose engineered flooring is for dimensional stability. Based on my experience Schon flooring is anything but dimensionally stable. I'll let you know if I re-lay the floor again and have success. If I do I guess you must acclimate for 1 year.
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Old 11-03-2010, 11:41 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by macbill View Post
Machlin,

If you installed the Schon flooring you need not listen to the comments from the others. The Schon flooring(in my opinion) is poorly constructed. Every time a hardwood floor project goes awry the defense is "you did not manage moisture properly". My experience is the Schon flooring expands and contracts much more than normal hardwood flooring. I am not sure if there is a climate that it works suitably in. I acclimated mine for 2 weeks. My story goes as follows. May: Installed moisture barrier and laid floor(on 17 year old air conditioned slab in Florida). July floor buckled. Attributed this to raise in humidity in Florida. Re-laid floor. In September floor buckled again(no raise in humidity). Attributed time/humidity. Re-laid floor again. In January humidity dropped and floor separated in middle of room with 1/2-3/4 inch gap and also had 1/4 to 1/2 inch gap to wall. Since 1 year floor seems stable so maybe I will re-lay floor 1 more time. I have never heard of any flooring expanding or contracting this much. I have also never seen any other floor called "engineered" with this type of substrate. After further research I cannot find a Schon floor company and gather that Schon flooring is a product specified by LL and marketed only by LL. I chose it for the finish as I could not find a comparable finish anywhere(color and gloss). I still love the finish but the construction of this flooring is pure garbage. I cannot comment as to whether you have a case against LL or not. I did not even approach them as I expected only run-around and whining about water/moisture and improper installation. The main reason to choose engineered flooring is for dimensional stability. Based on my experience Schon flooring is anything but dimensionally stable. I'll let you know if I re-lay the floor again and have success. If I do I guess you must acclimate for 1 year.
An engineered floor wether it be a floating or glue down installation is REQUIRED any time you are installing on top of a concrete substrate, regardless if it has been "air conditioned for 17 years". If the proper moisture tests are taken, before installation there should be no buckling or warping of any kind.

After reading your post, I noticed you mentioned that once the humidity dropped, and you reinstalled the product in January you noticed a 1/4-1/2" gap around the perimeter of the room. My question to you is did you install the floor tight to the walls on your original installation in May?
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Old 11-04-2010, 12:41 PM   #35
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If you installed the Schon flooring you need not listen to the comments from the others.
Are ya kiddin' me???

So...macbill...you are going to do yet another installation of the same product going for four times???

I am seriously searching for the intelligence of that thought process, in that plan. I am apparently once again missing something.
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Old 11-04-2010, 04:26 PM   #36
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The thing that continues to make me wonder:
75 years ago hardwood floors were put down in houses that were heated by wood stoves and coal furnaces in the winter (almost no humidity) and left open to the heat and humidity in the summer (no air conditioning). These floors are still around and in good condition.

Now that we have the modern, high tech, "engineered" products we must control the temperature and humidity like a constant atmosphere laboratory to avoid disaster.

WHERE IS THE PROGRESS IN THIS??????????????????????????????????

If I had known the things I have found out after the fact before I bought this wonderful "engineered" junk, I would not have wasted my money.

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Old 11-04-2010, 04:58 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Bud Cline View Post
Are ya kiddin' me???

So...macbill...you are going to do yet another installation of the same product going for four times???

I am seriously searching for the intelligence of that thought process, in that plan. I am apparently once again missing something.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein, (attributed)
US (German-born) physicist (1879 - 1955)


is this what you were getting at ?
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Old 11-04-2010, 05:12 PM   #38
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Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein, (attributed)
US (German-born) physicist (1879 - 1955)


is this what you were getting at ?
Well yow-ah!
If you always do what you have always done you will always get what you always got! Or sumpin like that.

"Insanity" is only one of the words that describes that process.
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Old 11-04-2010, 08:16 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by macbill View Post
Machlin,

If you installed the Schon flooring you need not listen to the comments from the others. The Schon flooring(in my opinion) is poorly constructed. Every time a hardwood floor project goes awry the defense is "you did not manage moisture properly". My experience is the Schon flooring expands and contracts much more than normal hardwood flooring. I am not sure if there is a climate that it works suitably in. I acclimated mine for 2 weeks. My story goes as follows. May: Installed moisture barrier and laid floor(on 17 year old air conditioned slab in Florida). July floor buckled. Attributed this to raise in humidity in Florida. Re-laid floor. In September floor buckled again(no raise in humidity). Attributed time/humidity. Re-laid floor again. In January humidity dropped and floor separated in middle of room with 1/2-3/4 inch gap and also had 1/4 to 1/2 inch gap to wall. Since 1 year floor seems stable so maybe I will re-lay floor 1 more time. I have never heard of any flooring expanding or contracting this much. I have also never seen any other floor called "engineered" with this type of substrate. After further research I cannot find a Schon floor company and gather that Schon flooring is a product specified by LL and marketed only by LL. I chose it for the finish as I could not find a comparable finish anywhere(color and gloss). I still love the finish but the construction of this flooring is pure garbage. I cannot comment as to whether you have a case against LL or not. I did not even approach them as I expected only run-around and whining about water/moisture and improper installation. The main reason to choose engineered flooring is for dimensional stability. Based on my experience Schon flooring is anything but dimensionally stable. I'll let you know if I re-lay the floor again and have success. If I do I guess you must acclimate for 1 year.

If you read macbill's post carefully, you will see he mentioned 1/4-1/2" gaps to the wall after the humidity dropped, and the floor shrunk. He also mentioned installing a few times before this, and had a problem with buckling. I'm thinking he probably installed the flooring around the perimeter of the room tight to the walls initially. Does anyone else think that may be the case after reading his post?
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Old 11-04-2010, 11:21 PM   #40
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I actually haven't re-installed it again yet since it dried out but I hear you on repeating and expecting different results. But the floor has not moved in over a year so I am thinking it may be stable now. Also lets not forget this is click type floating floor. Hardest part of install is clearing the room of furniture and R&R of moldings. Every install I did had a gap on two walls and tight on the other two walls. First time 1/8" and after each buckling 1/4". Now I have a 1/4-1/2" separation in middle of floor and 1/4-1/2 in gap to molding base(approx. 3/4" to walls) on 2 walls and still tight on the other two. I had an idea to cut away drywall and furring strips to give me a 3/4" gap beyond the baseboard moldings so even if this stuff demands a 3/4inch rang of expansion/contraction it will still be under the moldings. As for why I keep dealing with the same stuff. Two reasons. I love the look but mostly $$$$$$$$$$4,000 unrecoverable for the flooring. Cannot bear the idea to throw it away and buy new.

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