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Old 04-21-2009, 12:40 AM   #1
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efflorescence question


So i just did my second tile job. I had some issues on my first project (the basement bathroom) with efflorescence and I am sure that I used too much water in the cleanup process. This time around I was very careful and used much less and I still have a whitish haze on the grout line. What gives? Is it possible that the efflorescence is something that can just happen regardless of skill level? I haven't sealed it yet and am hopeful that the 50/50 water vinegar thing will work? One question on that, do you scrub it on and then leave it, or do you wipe it off? Thanks

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Old 04-21-2009, 04:01 PM   #2
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Sure sounds like too much water. Apply the white vinegar, spread it evenly, let stand a few, scrub with soft brush then rinse a few times. Vinegar can work, but I like it in my salad better.

May need to do it again using stronger or straight, or maybe a product made just for that purpose. There are many.

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Old 12-12-2009, 02:54 PM   #3
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efflorescence is indeed caused by moisture. did you go over concrete? did you use a moistue meter? it might not be how much water you used but it may be there was moisture in the substrate its self, that is why it is imperative that you use a meter. there are water based efflorescence removers out there so you do not have to use the acid ones and they work, then seal it, you need to make sure you are using the correct sealer other wise the efflorescence will just keep coming back
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Old 12-12-2009, 10:24 PM   #4
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Listen Tiger - Here's the deal.

If you didn't have very noticeable white eruptions on the floor the day you installed the tile and the day you grouted, it is highly highly highly unlikely you are dealing with efflorescence. It just doesn't usually work that way.

The white haze you have is just that ---"white haze".

Too much water when mixing the grout, finishing the grout too soon after application, using too much water to clean and dress the grout, leaving water stand in the grout joints, not changing the cleaning water frequently, will all cause white haze.

Efflorescence is an eruption of natural salts contained in the cement substrate or cement grout products or both but it shows itself in the form of a blooming or blossoming if you will. NOT A HAZE!

About 1% of the tile jobs done ever see a moisture meter used before the tile installation, that's just baloney.

Use the white vinegar mixed with water, clean the floor a couple of times, and be done with it.

So Tiger? Keeping any secrets?
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Old 12-13-2009, 12:50 AM   #5
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Did you have any drywall dust in the joints before grouting?
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Old 12-13-2009, 11:06 AM   #6
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Bud Cline,
Using a moisture meter is baloney huh? I am glad you do not do any work at my house. Excessive moisture can cause mold and mildew growth under the tile, adhesive failures and yes, efflorescence. You profess to know everything about all of this, and I will admit you have a better handle on it than most, but the condescending tone you use does not make you sound smart, it makes you sound like a jerk. I realize you have a strong opinion on apparantly everything, but just because you have an opinion does not mean you are always right. While you are correct that efflorescence does not present as a haze, you leave out the fact that it can present as white "trails" in the grout lines.
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Old 12-13-2009, 04:09 PM   #7
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Quote:
groutonce: "it is imperative that you use a meter."
OK, so, it is OK for you to spew imperatives but when I speak with knowledge and confidence and experience I'm the jerk. Are you friggen kiddin' me?

Quote:
groutonce: "seal it, you need to make sure you are using the correct sealer other wise the efflorescence will just keep coming back"
Now that right there is a statement of total misunderstanding and ignorance of the subject.

Efflorescence is the rising of salts and chemicals found naturally in cement products. If the chemicals are present they may remain dormant forever unless moisture is added. Once moisture is present it activates those components and they begin to naturally rise with the moisture seeking to evaporate. It is a phenomenon of nature. You cannot not seal it in to stop the process. If moisture is present from below it naturally rises in pursuit of evaporation. If along the way that moisture encounters those salts then they hitchhike and continue rising. No amount of sealer will stop it. To tell someone they can stop efflorescence simply by using the right magical sealer is just plain wrong and unscientific.

I don't mean to sound condescending but when people come here with an apparent lack of knowledge but comment as if their words were Gospel I don't beat around the bush kissing a$$ and trying to be politically correct. Participants here deserve the best and most knowledgeable information they can get and that doesn't include a lot of hogwash from people that just want to type something.
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Old 12-13-2009, 04:31 PM   #8
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Quote:If moisture is present from below it naturally rises in pursuit of evaporation.

So you admit it is necessary to know the moisture level in the substrate even though in your last post you called it baloney. Cant have it both ways, so which is it? Baloney or substrate moisture can cause later problems. Well genius? nevermind you will probably just contradict yourself again.

Quote:Participants here deserve the best and most knowledgeable information they can get and that doesn't include a lot of hogwash from people that just want to type something.

With over 1500 posts where do you find the time to be an expert on everything else in the world?
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Old 12-13-2009, 04:52 PM   #9
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I'll offer up my 1500 posts against your 6 posts anytime.

I give up you win, you are correct about everything and I know nothing about anything.

You have the last word!
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Old 12-13-2009, 05:13 PM   #10
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Quote: No amount of sealer will stop it. To tell someone they can stop efflorescence simply by using the right magical sealer is just plain wrong and unscientific.


What the hell do you know about scientific? I know you believe you understand the subject matter, but you simply do not. I personally understand it on a molecular level. But I am sure you have a P.H.D. in chemistry as well. These salts and other chemicals (like free lime and free calcium and sodium hydroxide to name a few) you refer to are all part of the alkali family. THERE ARE SEALERS on the market that contain chemicals such as Dimethyl, Methylhydrogen siloxane, and N-Octyltriethoxysilane, and Fluorosliane/siloxane, as well as lithium, potassium, and sodium silicates. These chemicals seek out and react WITH the "salts and other chemicals" to form a seal inside the cementious material that is invisible. They use the very cause of efflorescence, and neutralize them and use them as a CATALYST for the sealers themselves and BLOCK THE EFFLORESCENCE PERMANENTLY.
While I am sure that with your vast knowledge of all that is in the universe, you will disagree with me I actually DO understand the science behind it. I have been developing these types of products for years and would gladly provide the names of some of these products outside this forum (rules you know) to prove that they do in fact work and work well, but the exercise would be futile, as you are clearly too closed minded to believe that modern science can advance on anything beyond your limited closed minded imagination. Early last century people told Henry Ford that Mass Production of Automobiles was impossible as well. With that said I imagine you still ride a horse because you dont believe in scientific advancement, but again, just because you have a strong opinion does not mean you are correct.
Humbly,
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Old 12-18-2009, 01:45 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by groutonce View Post
the condescending tone you use does not make you sound smart, it makes you sound like a jerk.
Groutonce
Now who sounds like a jerk? Did you forget that someone was needing help, and we don't care how far you can pee?

Thanks, Bud, for the solution, and for naming the haze.
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Old 12-18-2009, 02:02 PM   #12
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My response was commensurate with the tone of the message sent to me.
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Old 12-18-2009, 02:06 PM   #13
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efflorescence question


Oh, well, in that case...

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