To Ditra Or Not? - Flooring - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Flooring

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-12-2008, 05:47 AM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 39
Rewards Points: 25
Default

To Ditra or not?


The house is 108 years old. The kitchen floor joist are oak true 2"x12" spaced at 18" on center. The subfloor is also oak 3/4"x8" installed at a 45 degree angle. The finished floor is 3/4" oak. The joist span is 11-1/2 feet. So far I have installed 5/16" concrete board with 1/4" leveling shims and screws every 8". My plan is to install 18"x18" 1/2" thick travertine stone tile. I'd like to skip the Ditra to reduce the finished floor height. If I use the Ditra the difference in floor height between the kitchen and the other rooms will be almost 2". I already have the Ditra. Would skipping the Ditra cause any problems?

Advertisement

JamesEric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2008, 12:44 PM   #2
Tileguy
 
JazMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Troy, Michigan
Posts: 4,186
Rewards Points: 2,230
Default

To Ditra or not?


James or Eric,

What you're doing is completely wrong and grossly inadequate. Where did you get advice to do what you did?

Jaz

Advertisement

__________________
Tile 4 You LLC Troy, MI

DITRA Installs - KERDI Watertight-Mold-Free Showers. I have NEVER made a mistake, I thought I did ONCE, but, I was WRONG! A+ BBB rating - est. 1987 - over 50 yrs. exp.
JazMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2008, 02:34 PM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 39
Rewards Points: 25
Default

To Ditra or not?


Okay. What should I do? I will wait for your reply before I do anything else. What should do from here?
JamesEric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2008, 03:03 PM   #4
Tileguy
 
JazMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Troy, Michigan
Posts: 4,186
Rewards Points: 2,230
Default

To Ditra or not?


You should have removed the top hardwood flooring. Then you should have installed a plywood underlayment. Then your Durock tile backer board or Ditra.

Kinda late now. Either rip all that up and send it to a landfill, or maybe take a chance and add a layer of 3/8" ply with Ditra over? Remember though that your 8" diagonal sub is bound to move if not fastened well, affecting everything over it.

The floor had better be flat too. And you'll require special thinset for the stone tile.

Jaz
__________________
Tile 4 You LLC Troy, MI

DITRA Installs - KERDI Watertight-Mold-Free Showers. I have NEVER made a mistake, I thought I did ONCE, but, I was WRONG! A+ BBB rating - est. 1987 - over 50 yrs. exp.
JazMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2008, 03:35 PM   #5
Tileguy
 
Bud Cline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,465
Rewards Points: 2,578
Default

To Ditra or not?


Too many precariously placed layers on a structure that old spells trouble for a ceramic tile installation and a travertine install would be out of the question in my estimation.

The backerboard needs to be taken out, the top layer of hardwood flooring removed, the subfloor re-attached to the joists, then start to rebuild with plywood and tile backer.

The fact that the structural members are full dimension are a slight "plus" but the 18" joist spacing may rob that "plus".

Jaz's suggestion would probably work if it wasn't for it having so darned many layers offering potential voids to flex.
Bud Cline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2008, 05:12 PM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 39
Rewards Points: 25
Default

To Ditra or not?


Thanks for the help. It is not too late. I can still make it right but I'll need more details. This is not a rush project and I have the time to correct the problems.

1. What is the tool of choice for removing the hardwood flooring? My first thought is a circular saw set for shallow cutting.
2. Are you telling me to add srcrews to the sub-floor and if so what is the preferred spacing?

Thanks again for saving the day.

James

Last edited by JamesEric; 02-12-2008 at 05:54 PM.
JamesEric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2008, 08:10 PM   #7
Tileguy
 
Bud Cline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,465
Rewards Points: 2,578
Default

To Ditra or not?


I'm afraid the way to remove the flooring is "any way you can". I know that's not scientific but demolition rarely is. I would use at least two screws per board crossing every joist. And check that all boards are secured to the joists.
Bud Cline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2008, 09:12 PM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 1,802
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

To Ditra or not?


Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesEric View Post
Thanks for the help. It is not too late. I can still make it right but I'll need more details. This is not a rush project and I have the time to correct the problems.

1. What is the tool of choice for removing the hardwood flooring? My first thought is a circular saw set for shallow cutting.
2. Are you telling me to add srcrews to the sub-floor and if so what is the preferred spacing?

Thanks again for saving the day.

James
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...4788_200344788
Just find the joists and pry away.
jerryh3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2008, 04:59 AM   #9
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 39
Rewards Points: 25
Default

To Ditra or not?


I always felt that something was not right but I didn't know how to fix it. My new plan is to remove the hardwood everywhere except under the base cabinets (cabinet have not been installed yet). I'll add 2 deck screws to each sub-floor board wherever it crosses a joist. The house has shifted so getting it level is not an option but I will make it flat. I have a 6 feet level and a laser to double check the final substrate. If I've missed anything, please let me know. I'm going to take the day off and "get 'r done." At first light I'm heading to Lowes to get a carbide tip circular saw blade and deck screws. I l already have enough tools for the demo. Once again, I appreciate all of the expert advice.

James

Last edited by JamesEric; 02-13-2008 at 05:02 AM.
JamesEric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2008, 07:02 AM   #10
Member
 
BleachCola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 63
Rewards Points: 75
Default

To Ditra or not?


alot of people wish they had beautiful hardwood floors, why not refinish them ?
BleachCola is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2008, 07:25 AM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 39
Rewards Points: 25
Default

To Ditra or not?


The kitchen is the only room in the house that does not have hardwood worth finishing. I'm going to finish the other rooms but the kitchen floor is shot.
JamesEric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2008, 04:45 PM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Western New York
Posts: 70
Rewards Points: 75
Default

To Ditra or not?


I recently removed hardwoods from an entire house due to water/moisture damage. (As Bud Cline pointed out in a post I once replied too, never install tile over hardwood, I saw why last week!)

We used roof rippers, they look like a flat shovel with teeth on the end. Took 2 guys about an hour for the whole first floor. Went back later to remove or hammer down all the left over nails.
mgarfield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2008, 04:58 PM   #13
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 39
Rewards Points: 25
Default

To Ditra or not?


I know what you mean. That is what I used to remove the carpet and tile they had in the kitchen when we purchased the house.

This is latest update on the project:
1. I have removed the concrete board
2. I cut a 24"x36" hole in the hardwood so that I could inspect the sub-floor. The sub-floor is cupped. The boards range in width from 8"-10" wide. Because they are cupped the floor has waves.

How should I proceed from here?

Thanks,

James
JamesEric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2008, 05:34 PM   #14
Tileguy
 
JazMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Troy, Michigan
Posts: 4,186
Rewards Points: 2,230
Default

To Ditra or not?


YIKES! James, you've got more work ahead of you!

This means you have too much moisture, it's probably coming from underneath? Either a damp basement or wet crawl or? Probably need to look at the landscape around and soil condition under the house if on a crawl. Install a moisture barrier on the ground if there is no basement, insulation under the subfloor etc?.

You should probably do it right while you're in the mood and rip all that lumber out of there. Then you can start from scratch with new plywood subfloor.

Jaz
__________________
Tile 4 You LLC Troy, MI

DITRA Installs - KERDI Watertight-Mold-Free Showers. I have NEVER made a mistake, I thought I did ONCE, but, I was WRONG! A+ BBB rating - est. 1987 - over 50 yrs. exp.
JazMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2008, 06:37 PM   #15
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 39
Rewards Points: 25
Default

To Ditra or not?


I already knew that was coming. I don't think I have a moisture problem. The meter shows things to be nice and dry. The kitchen is over a conditioned basement but it was not always that way. The boards have had over 100 years to warp. This week I can remove all of the lumber down to the joist and replace it with plywood. It is my understanding that only the bottom layer should be screwd to the joist and the top layer should be screwed to the bottom layer and not through to the joist. I also read that I should 1/4" between plywood sheets for expansion. If that is wrong, please tell me now. If there are any other tips please let me know because I may start as early as sunrise in the morning.

Thanks,

James

Advertisement

JamesEric is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ditra under Laminate Floor? HECO Flooring 3 04-30-2012 09:00 AM
Installing Ceramic tile: Ditra over Vinyl or rip out and use 5/8 Plywood? ppieda Flooring 2 10-05-2007 12:01 PM
have osb subfloors that squeak on 3 story duplex runbikeengr Flooring 12 04-19-2007 02:33 AM
Tile a shower base? always something Flooring 6 03-19-2007 10:58 AM
Ceramic Tiling on a Slab nsb318 Flooring 3 03-01-2007 03:23 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts