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Old 08-27-2009, 06:27 PM   #1
Do it YourSelf Miss Vicki
 
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Desperate need for advice



Salutations I am new to your thread...
My current project,,, Re-tile Kitchen / Dining floor (Home built 1962) Currently applied in kitchen area 1st layer appears to be soft partical wood board (There is a small Squ. step of plywood material in front of door entrance due to previous water damage issue) 2nd layer is very old linoleum (Sheeted material with black paper backing). The third layer cracked ceramic tile. The dining area is carpet. (Not sure whats underneath... I assume it also linoleum?)
My initial thought is to contract in help and replace entire subfloor area of both kitchen and dining area. Though I perceive this would very costly due to having to cut and remove all layers of old flooring... Would it be sucessfull and less costly to simply lie cement backerboard over the top of the entire area? I would assume I would also need to layer in some type of material in the uneven areas in the door way. I have attached a picture for best advice.

Slammin my head on this one

Thank you in advance
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Old 08-27-2009, 08:53 PM   #2
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Desperate need for advice


Myself I like starting from a clean slate
I took 12 layers of wood/flooring off my last kitchen in the old house
Then put down new 3/4" plywood
You will be building up quite a few layers of flooring
What is under the house - basement/crawlspace?

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Old 08-27-2009, 10:57 PM   #3
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It is a 4 ft crawl space. The biggest issue of course?! The wood... does extend under the cabinets.. so it would have to be cut flush with cabinets and then replaced?

Thank you for responding along with any ideas
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Old 08-27-2009, 11:50 PM   #4
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Desperate need for advice


I have a similar problem with our house from '65. Nice mix of red/white oak flooring everywhere but the kitchen, where they employed particle board garbage over the sub floor for some reason. With my kitchen, several layers of flooring and plywood are now built up on top of that particle board, which has been damp a few times from various leaks, and is now falling apart, and creating sort of a scaled-down version of plate tectonics with the cabinets and counters. Also, the floor is so thick that the bottom of the back door actually rubs the year-old vinyl floor, and has caused all kinds of abrasion marks.

So, you're not the only one dealing with particle board. If you've kept up with my rambling so far, good. Now I want to get to the real reason I am posting.

I've pretty much decided to do it right, and take all the junk out so I can start with a fresh floor. Our cabinets are currently sunk in to the floor about 3/4" due to the layers that have been added, and they themselves are on top of the particle board and some really ugly old VAT tiles. (Yes, VAT. Ugh.) The point is, I think any particle board left behind will simply continue to make life difficult. bucking cabinets and counters that are not level do not appeal to me. Neither does the idea of a small, inevitable leak going unnoticed some day, and saturating the particle board enough that I end up with a rotten sub floor. (More on that coming right up!) I will be carefully removing the base cabinets and re-using them once the new floor is in place, and, you may want to consider this as well. I also think it's easier to pull a base cabinet out that it is to try to cut around them.

Now, here's the hypothetical situation that convinced my wife that ripping out the floor was the wise choice. Let's say you simply cut the particle board, and leave the stuff under the cabinets in place. You then lay new flooring down, but in doing so, create a sort of channel, or a moat, if you will, right at the edge of the cabinets. If a pipe starts leaking under your sink, instead of having water hit the floor and run out in to the middle of the kitchen where you'll notice it quickly, it might instead run right down in to that cut line and spend days or possibly even weeks saturating your sub floor. I don't know about you, but that s the kind of thing that has haunted my dreams since becoming a home owner.

Last edited by KAdams4458; 08-27-2009 at 11:54 PM.
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Old 08-28-2009, 05:29 PM   #5
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I will be carefully removing the base cabinets and re-using them once the new floor is in place, and, you may want to consider this as well. I also think it's easier to pull a base cabinet out that it is to try to cut around them.

Now, here's the hypothetical situation that convinced my wife that ripping out the floor was the wise choice. Let's say you simply cut the particle board, and leave the stuff under the cabinets in place. You then lay new flooring down, but in doing so, create a sort of channel, or a moat, if you will, right at the edge of the cabinets. If a pipe starts leaking under your sink, instead of having water hit the floor and run out in to the middle of the kitchen where you'll notice it quickly, it might instead run right down in to that cut line and spend days or possibly even weeks saturating your sub floor. I don't know about you, but that s the kind of thing that has haunted my dreams since becoming a home owner.

Last edited by KAdams4458; Yesterday at 11:54 PM.

Ok I know your right... I just did not want to hear that is all... I may be selling my home in the near future... I am not one that can heft out cabinets and lay a new sub floor... Currently unemployed?! Now what do I do? ooooyyyy... there has to be an easier solution... Which.... will be wrong the solution obviously... so I guess I need to wait until I can figure out if I am going to sell my home or keep it....

Thank you for all the knowledge and advice I guess I'm back to "Smackin the head on the wall" LOL... At least until I can locate a great paying new job... sell the house... or win the lottery?! OOOYYYVEEYYY

Vicki
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Old 08-29-2009, 03:57 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VickMachine View Post

Ok I know your right... I just did not want to hear that is all... I may be selling my home in the near future... I am not one that can heft out cabinets and lay a new sub floor... Currently unemployed?! Now what do I do? ooooyyyy... there has to be an easier solution... Which.... will be wrong the solution obviously... so I guess I need to wait until I can figure out if I am going to sell my home or keep it....

Thank you for all the knowledge and advice I guess I'm back to "Smackin the head on the wall" LOL... At least until I can locate a great paying new job... sell the house... or win the lottery?! OOOYYYVEEYYY

Vicki
Again, it's not the only option, just my personal opinion on the matter. I have been accused of being a perfectionist in the past, and my accusers may be on to something.

If selling the home is in the short term plans, that might change things a bit. For all you know, the next owners might just want to gut the kitchen completely. I wouldn't personally let that stop me from perfecting the floor before I left, but that's me. If the particle board is intact, then most people would probably leave it under the cabinets. I think it would be hard to call it a right or wrong decision. Sometimes you just have to work with what you have.

I'm sorry to hear of your unemployment. My wife and I are in a tough situation as well. Her hours are continually being cut, and I, having not found worthy employment for some time, have started my own business. Both are costing us money, and definitely take a big bite out of what we can accomplish on the house in the short term.

Our own kitchen upgrade was only supposed to be a little paint for the cabinets and some new hardware. That was before we realised that the entire house had active roof leaks and severe water damage that had been covered up by the seller. We were prepared to live with the generic tile backsplash in the kitchen, until the laminate it was covering started letting go of the wet drywall behind it. Then there was the flickering lights from poorly made wire splices buried in the ceiling. Next it was the floor that started coming apart because they nailed luan down on top of rotting particle board. I'm getting the mess sorted out little by little, so that's all that matters.

A trick I learned years ago is that it really helps to just focus on small steps in the project one at a time. If I looked at the whole mess on my hands, I'd be beating my head on a wall, too. So, just break things down in to manageable mini-projects that you can work on as time and money permit. In fact, this little trick can be applied successfully to many things in life. Hang in there, and just do your best to keep a positive attitude.
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Old 09-11-2009, 12:37 PM   #7
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Desperate need for advice


Kadamms445...

Thanks so much for the reply
I really appreciate the pep talk lol... I hav'nt been on for awhile due to your exact words... I have been depressed about the whole situation and the floor wondering what to do... I finally finished the kitchen cabinets along with many beat up peices of molding... I purchased myself an orbital sander (I love this sander!!!) I restained and varnished... This part looks brand new... I too am a pefectionist by heart which is why I am now fighting myself over this floor and what to do?! I can't addord what it's going to take to do it right... and now my biggest dillema was that I had started this mess by trying to remove some of the tile in front of the door and I have that big lip between the floors!! I don't know what to do... I moved my focus to the back splash (Applying 2" X 2" Mosaic tile) This looks great too!? Back to the floor again?!... Depressed and stuck again... I need to finish up spot painting in the upper level hall way.... then start painting the 3rd bedroom and clean up it's wood work... Then move on to the 2nd bedroom and then the third level basement... I find myself doing exactly what you said... I am overwhelmed and moving on to other tasks when other tasks are not complete... Going a bit crazy lol... Reading your comments have helped... Thank so much... Sorry to hear of your own situation as well... I am seeing more and more that I am not alone in the world... It's great to have forum to help me think in a more positive way... lol. I am heading to Menards this afternoon for a few things... I am going to stop by their flooring department and see if I can get some idea of what to do with this fllor mess... I know nothing about Floating floors?! But someone said this could be an option for the mess I have now created?! Don't know... but it's worth a shot lol

Thanks again so much! You're good for ones self esteem

Vicki

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