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frgwtchr 08-12-2009 12:32 PM

custom seat behind premade shower pan???
I bought a premade shower pan 3x4 ish. I have roughed out the walls for two sides and a glass shwoer door will go on a third. on the fourth side I would like to build a shower seat. I am wondering how I go about doing this. Oh, and I am planning on tiling up walls and on seat. Questions like...
A: what the correct pitch is for the seat,
B:should I use a Kerdi membrane on the seat part?
C: Do I need to mud the seat like a floor or can I just build it and put on backerboard and Kerdi membrane or regGuard or something?
D: What else do I need to keep in mind?

Also, I am putting backerboard down on top of the plywood subfloor through the bathroom. I have read over and over that shower floor is no place for backboard. Can I put it under the premade shower pan though to keep my floors even or does pan have to go directly on plywood subfloor (second story of house)

Sorry if this is repeat question from earlier threads...I have been searching and not coming up with anything. Thanks for any input...this site has been amazing!

Bud Cline 08-12-2009 05:06 PM

Forget all that nonsense you listed and do this:


Can I put it under the premade shower pan though to keep my floors even

Next question?:)

frgwtchr 08-13-2009 11:15 AM

original poster follow-up
[quote=Bud Cline;313555]Forget all that nonsense you listed and do this:

I was already looking for the wall recess shelf and that link was just was I was looking for. :thumbsup: Thank you soooo much! However if i use the rectangular bench I will need some sort of water proof connection running vertically from the shower base flange to the edge of the bench because i intend the bench to be completely outside (not hanging over) the prefab shower pan. Would I treat that rise just like any other wall in the shower and prepare it the same way? or do you have another suggestion? Thanks Again!!!

P.S. I can post a picture tonight if need be.

Bud Cline 08-13-2009 03:49 PM


P.S. I can post a picture tonight if need be.
That would be good cause now I am totally lost.:)

frgwtchr 08-13-2009 05:46 PM

picture of project
1 Attachment(s)
This picture is looking through one of the walls I just built. The chair is placed where I would like the shower seat to go. We decided on a seat there and not just extending the whole shower because of the waste pipes and inset wall demesions we couldn't change because of an existing bathroom adjacent to this one. Our shower is 34 inches wide and the seat will only be 32 inches wide which is fine because the doors mount over the pan theashold which is about 2 inches. the inset is about as deep as a chair so we thought a bench seat would work well. What do you think???

Bud Cline 08-13-2009 08:53 PM

Jheeeezh! Why didn't you start with a tuff one?

What's going to happen with that vent flu?

The only thing I see to do is to build the front of the bench where the front chair legs are now. That way you can waterproof the bench and make it drain back into the receptor you have there. The tiles on the front of the bench would serve as a watershed into the receptor.

Yow that's not at all what I was envisioning in my earlier post. The Innovis benches won't work there afterall - I stand corrected.:)

frgwtchr 08-14-2009 12:05 AM

need more guidance---and quick, PLEASE
The vent flu used to go straight up but I rerouted it to the side and then up above the ceiling and tied back in where it was originally. I think the better bench will still work if I put cement board down (where the chair legs are) going to the top of the pan flange so water will drain into the pan. The bench still has to be mudded though according the the installation direction and I still don't know the right slope. I think I can make it work and when I get the better bench tomorrow and start to put things in place I will post another picture at each step so you can critique what I am doing so I will do it correctly. It make have been easier just the mud the whole shower floor but the prefab pan was so cheap I snatched it up and thought I could make it work. Can someone please clarify "unmodified thinset" vs. "modified thinset" versus joint compound, latex thinset, and mastic. I know where to use (or not to use) each but I don't get the differences and how to find what I need for each part. I am getting kind of frustrated because this project is very slow going. I enjoy doing the work and learning but I fear I will miss something and screw it all up. I don't trust the "professionals" in this small town because the last bunch we hire made a mess of everything and I was out a bunch of money and had to fix their mistakes after they left.:(

Bud Cline 08-14-2009 08:14 AM

"MUD" - What is it?
Here's some information I posted to another ceramic tile site and I thought it would be beneficial to some people here also. Maybe it will help to clear up some confusion.

THINSET: is a form of tile adhesive, it comes two ways.
Modified and Unmodified, and those two ways also come in grey and white. There are more variations and more coming but this will give you the basic idea. Thinset is a portland cement type product.

MODIFIED THINSET: comes with all the necessary additives already in the bag and you add only water, nothing else. There are a variety of modified thinsets, as the price goes up the quality (additives) goes up.

UNMODIFIED THINSET: has no additives and you add water to it.
You can however include your own additives to make unmodified thinset into modified thinset and this method will result in a modified thinset that is in fact stronger than the basic modified thinset you buy in the bag.

DECK-MUD: is the cement product used to cast the preslope of a shower at 1/4" of slope per foot and also the final slope also at 1/4" per foot. It is made up of one part portland cement to four parts sand, nothing else. Usually you mix all of the components yourself.

FAT-MUD: is the same as 'deck-mud' but fat-mud also contains lime. Lime in the mixture is required for vertical surfaces such as curbs and dams and walls. Fat-mud is usually mixed at one part portland one part lime four parts sand and you mix all of the components yourself.

SANDMIX: is for these purposes the same thing as 'deck-mud' except you purchase sandmix already mixed in the bag, just ad water nothing else.

MORTAR MIX: is for these purposes the same thing as fat-mud except you purchase mortarmix already mixed in the bag, just add water nothing else. The lime is already there for you.

ADDITIVES: can be a variety of latexs or polymers or whatevers and they are usually product specific meaning they are only compatible with recommended products and shouldn't necessarily be mixed with other products helter-skelter whenever the moods strike.

SLC's (SELF LEVELLING COMPOUNDS): Have a very specific recipe and already contain all of the necessary additives. SLC's get mixed with a measured amount of water only and you never add anything else to the mix. You never tamper with SLC's.

PATCHING COMPOUNDS: are also available in a variety of mixes and are used to make repairs and corrections but usually only require water and they are formulated to stick and stay with the surface to which they are applied. Patching products come in both portland cement styles and gypsum styles. ONLY portland cement styles of patching compounds are suitable for ceramic tile projects. Gypsum based patching products should never be co-phased with tile installation setting materials. NEVER.

It is not wise to concoct your own recipes. Just because you have something left-over from before, to think that adding some foriegn additive to any powdered product will "beef-it-up" is foolish. In some cases this random mixing is totally counter-productive and will ruin the product and void its original purpose.

I know this is confusing information. All of the above products are unfortunately referred to as "MUD" in the tile trade. People familiar with the trade usually know which "mud" is being talked about depending on the phase the job is in.

When you refer to a particular product here please call it by its trade name not its generic name so we have some idea of what is being talked about.

-Bud Cline 5/06

Bud Cline 08-14-2009 08:20 AM

MASTIC isn't mentioned basically because it isn't considered a legitimate "mud".

Most of us wouldn't recommend mastic for anything more than an occaisional backsplash in a dry area.

PRE-MIXED THINSET now there's a product to stay completely away from. Pre-mixed thinsets have set the Internet on fire with complaints.

frgwtchr 08-14-2009 10:27 AM

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Now off to the store to see what i can find...Please check back later to this thread as I will post more pictures and question about this seat install. Thanks Again:)

frgwtchr 08-14-2009 11:09 AM

mortar on better bench???
so the instructions for the better bench call for building the mortar bed up so that it slope to the front. would that mean "mortar mix" or "Fat-mud" or does that mean "deck-mud" or "sand-mix". what would you guys recommend for a bench seat... deck or wall stuff? and I have read veried oppinion on what to "mud" wall board with. some say modified thinset, some say unmodified, but according to BudCline's definition i would think "Fat-Mud" or "mortar mix" would be right? SO-
A) What "mud" on bench?
B) What "mud" on wall board joints?
C) What "mud" on floor between plywood subfloor and cement board?
D) What "mud" between cement board on floor and porcelain tiles?
E) What "mud" between wall board in shower and porcelain and/or glass tiles on shower wall?

Clearing this up would surely make my day!!!!! and allow me to finish my bathroom too!!!

Bud Cline 08-14-2009 01:30 PM

I should have known.................


A) What "mud" on bench?
Sandmix works fine, filling the face of the bench gets tricky but can be done. A little fat-mud would actually be better for the vertical front of the Better Bench. For a first-timer I would suggest you use mortar mix to both fill the bench and skim the face of the bench. Mortar mix and fat-mud, same thing.


B) What "mud" on wall board joints?
Thinset, I prefer modified.


C) What "mud" on floor between plywood subfloor and cement board?
Thinset. Some board makers want unmodified and others want modified. I usually use modified throughout.


D) What "mud" between cement board on floor and porcelain tiles?
Thinset, modified thinset.


E) What "mud" between wall board in shower and porcelain and/or glass tiles on shower wall?
Thinset, modified thinset.

Let us recap!

Modified thinset can be used in all above cases with the exception of the bench-fill. That needs to be sand and cement with a touch of lime: i.e. Mortar Mix or Fat-mud.


I should mention that in the case of using glass tiles one should have the tile manufacturer recommend which modified thinset to use.

frgwtchr 08-15-2009 08:57 PM

Some flex normal in shower pan?
Should there be any flexing at all in the bottom of the shower pan after installation. The floor is level in all directions but the pan area nearest the drain doesnt touch the floor so there is some flex. This worries me a bit that over time the base may crack or the flexing will affect the tiling, etc.??????? Dont know where to go from here?

Bud Cline 08-15-2009 10:34 PM

That type of shower receptor is supposed to be set into a fresh pile of cement. Usually one 60-80# bag is enough. Mix it, scatter the mix, press the base into the mix, leave it alone at least overnight until it sets up. Flexing is going to be a serious issue and needs to be corrected if the drain fitting is expected to work without leaking down under.:) Cracking of the base is a very real possibility.:)

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