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Old 11-12-2011, 03:05 AM   #31
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Cupping of wood floor, need input


Mostly all it does is help quiet the floor .
I use it to rap fish .
Let us know if you need a Inspector.

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Old 12-27-2011, 08:14 PM   #32
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Cupping of wood floor, need input


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Originally Posted by GBR in WA View Post
Page #7; 4. Do not use common red rosin or building paper which is not asphalt saturated. They are not vapor retarders as their perm rating is far greater than 50. From: http://grafbro.com/pdf/NWFA_INSTALLATION_GUIDELINES.pdf

Next time you are in the store, look for a window sticker from NWFA, or similar…….

Gary
Is there a distinct advantage of 30 lb. over 15 lb asphalt paper?

Murph
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Old 12-30-2011, 08:57 PM   #33
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Cupping of wood floor, need input


The moisture from a crawlspace will travel right through solid wood floor boards as 1x6 or 1x8. The glue layers in plywood or OSB act as a vapor retarder (0.45 perms) to slow the moisture drive at that layer. Many States accept the plywood (in place of an asphalt paper-faced on insulation) for a vapor retarder on the floor over a crawl. I would suggest Aqua-bar B(0.87 perms): http://books.google.com/books?id=vFM...page&q&f=false

The papers and felts of today are a far cry from the older papers and felts: http://www.dickseibert.com/martin.pdf

http://bct.eco.umass.edu/publication...tion-barriers/

http://www.fortifiber.com/pdf/fortif...sk_vs_felt.pdf

Gary
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Old 12-30-2011, 09:07 PM   #34
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Cupping of wood floor, need input


How long was the flooring allowed to sit in the room before it was installed.
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Old 12-30-2011, 09:08 PM   #35
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Cupping of wood floor, need input


How long was the wood allowed to sit in the room before it was installed?
Was the heat or A/C on?
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Old 01-01-2012, 08:13 AM   #36
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Cupping of wood floor, need input


What are your experiences with Aquabar B as opposed to felt? HD has it.

Doing searches in this forum I see some folks like it, some had trouble.

I'm laying oak over 3/4" plywood, over a crawl space.
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Old 01-17-2012, 11:36 AM   #37
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Cupping of wood floor, need input


Since the start of this whole thing, the floor was laid, the floor curled, then we were told the crawlspace needed prepped prior so we did it after the fact. It's been environmentally controlled under the house for about 4 months. The floor is starting to rebound but not totally. During a remodel of our kitchen we had to remove a couple rows of flooring in order to cut a door larger and we found that the barrier that was put under the floor was brown construction paper. We are battling with the floor company now and we don't expect they will cooperate with helping us. My main question is, if there is just brown paper under our floor, how many years will it even hold up and should the floor not be pulled up just to put the proper barrier down? The only reason the floor rebounded was because we totally enclosed the crawl space with heavy black plastic and put a dehumidifier down there. If something happens to that, then there is still no protection between the subfloor and our wood floor. If they won't do anything about it, do you have any advice about the future?
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Old 01-17-2012, 11:43 AM   #38
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Cupping of wood floor, need input


I'm sorry I am just answering. The wood sat in the house for almost a week and it is not new construction. We had the house environmentally controlled. We are just now reaching the point where we are trying to convince the flooring company that they need to do something about it because we fixed the crawlspace to spec and gave the floor a few months to see if it would rebound. It has somewhat but we also found that there is brown construction paper under the floor and over the years what good will that do? We sealed and dehumidified our crawlspace. Even though some of it is not as cupped, we have some now that is buckled. I have read all of the literature and the wood floor association bible and researched and talked to all of you guys. I know that it was not installed properly and we weren't schooled properly. They should have told us to make sure the crawlspace was fixed properly and then they would come back and lay the floor. The people we are dealing with are very nasty and treat you like you are stupid.
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Old 07-27-2012, 10:39 AM   #39
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Cupping of wood floor, need input


I am back. I received a lot of help from people on this site previously. This is an ongoing saga. We have just received a third party inspection of our floor and his official report said it is the result of improper installation. My guess is the store will be replacing the floor correctly. However, we have birch flooring down and we love it. What are the chances of it cupping again if the crawlspace has been corrected and the proper barrier is put under the flooring. Does this kind of wood cup easily or will it more than likely do ok with proper installation? I'm leary of this kind of wood now. Any recommendations? I really don't like the oak floor because it was very hard to match our wood trim everywhere throughout the house. There is too much grain in oak. Help us make the right decision so if it gets redone, it will bring us years of enjoyment instead of more grief.
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Old 07-27-2012, 10:52 AM   #40
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Cupping of wood floor, need input


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Originally Posted by Vlreddick View Post
I am back. I received a lot of help from people on this site previously. This is an ongoing saga. We have just received a third party inspection of our floor and his official report said it is the result of improper installation. My guess is the store will be replacing the floor correctly.
Out of curiosity, what step(s) of the installation was deemed officially incorrect to cause the cupping?
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Old 07-27-2012, 11:08 AM   #41
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Cupping of wood floor, need input


we were not told that the crawl space needed to be prepped and the flooring was laid on the subfloor with brown craft paper. When the floor started cupping we researched it and found out what needed done under the house and took care of that problem. After we did that, the floor cupping improved slightly but was still unsightly. We gave it almost a year after we corrected the crawlspace to see what it would do. We put the appropriate plastic over every square inch of dirt and up the sides along with waterproofing any exposed block and installed a dehumidifier under the house. If it is reinstalled with the crawlspace the way it is now and the installer uses asphalt paper under the floor I would hope it wouldn't recur but I am really afraid now. I would be willing to look at even engineered wood floor if there was more of a guarantee it would not cup.
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Old 07-27-2012, 11:16 AM   #42
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Cupping of wood floor, need input


Thanks. Lots of lessons here for me, also. After reading about yours and others woes, I made sure I had a good underlayment paper, so I used Aquabar B. After I completed the floor (about 1,300 sq. ft 3/4" oak) I encapsulated the crawlspace with materials from Crawlspace Science. I brought the liner to within 3" of the top cinderblock and fastened with tape and concrete fasteners. I removed the foundation vents and replaced them with cinder blocks. I also cut an opening in the supply and return HVAC to condition the space. (not sure if they are the right size and location) Humidity down there is still a bit high. At this moment, my remote crawl space thermometer is saying 73 deg. F and 66% r.h. Outdoor RH is 57%

I think I see some minor cupping. I was hoping to get away with not having a dehumidifier. There may be some areas of the crawlspace that are still leaking to the out doors air.

Thanks again.

Sam

Last edited by MurphyMan; 07-27-2012 at 12:44 PM.
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Old 07-27-2012, 03:29 PM   #43
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Cupping of wood floor, need input


Engineered floor will be far less likly to cup. It's even rated for below grade use.
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Old 09-13-2012, 08:44 AM   #44
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Cupping of wood floor, need input


Ok. Hope some of you guys that were so helpful before read this. We are still fighting over our floor. I cannot tell you everything that was done wrong during installation. The question I have right now is, the manufacturer recommends 3/4 inch expansion joint. Our baseboards are 3/4 inch with no quarter round so we already know it was installed with less than that. We have removed some baseboards and in every spot, the floor is butted up against the wall. The only slight space is where the installer made a wavy cut in the wood. If it were cut with a 3/4 inch expansion joint, how much would the wood expand in the summer? Would it take up the whole space?
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Old 09-13-2012, 09:04 AM   #45
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Cupping of wood floor, need input


I've never heard of a hard wood floor requiring that much of a gap.
Is a floor even expanded 1/2" it would be ripping the nails out hold it down.

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