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Vlreddick 08-25-2011 03:52 PM

Cupping of wood floor, need input
 
Last November 2010, we had our whole house remodeled with wood flooring. It was laid on a subfloor with a barrier of felt ( probably) between the wood and subfloor. The only question we were asked by anybody, sales or installer, is if we had plastic in the crawlspace. We did. However, we were not told the extra measures that could have been taken under the house and nobody inspected it prior to putting the floor down. Now, every square inch of wood cupped. We have someone coming from the point of sale next week to look at it. We assume now, after the fact, that this occurred due to humidity in the crawlspace. Had we been told about it, we would have prepared the space prior. We are going ahead on our own and starting the process under the house. If this was caused from humidity and the installer and seller both failed to make sure it was suitable for the floor, then who would be responsible? It should not have been done. I understand that it may take a whole season in the right conditions for the floor to possibly return to its original shape and sometimes it's permanent in which case someone will need to sand and restain the floor which voids the 25 year finish warranty. Any suggestions on what we can expect and if people become difficult, who should compensate us. I know without a doubt that we will not get new flooring from anyone but would like to know the most we could get.

woodman58 08-25-2011 05:07 PM

The only thing that should have been done before installation is to check the subfloor moisture content. It should have been no more than 2% difference between the subfloor and the hardwood. The floor itself should not be more than 10%. This is only if you have no AC on and windows open. Normally wood and subfloor is between 6% and 8%. Ask who ever comes to your house if there was a moisture test done prior to installation. Have them do a moisture test now. They should have one with them to verify any moisture problems. As for myself and anyone I know, I do not crawl under a house to check anything. If they choose not to cover this, there is not much that can be done about it. (In my opinion.) They will say that the moisture was not present at the time of installation. Hopefully the store is honorable and if they were negligent on the moisture test they will do right.

Vlreddick 08-25-2011 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodman58
The only thing that should have been done before installation is to check the subfloor moisture content. It should have been no more than 2% difference between the subfloor and the hardwood. The floor itself should not be more than 10%. This is only if you have no AC on and windows open. Normally wood and subfloor is between 6% and 8%. Ask who ever comes to your house if there was a moisture test done prior to installation. Have them do a moisture test now. They should have one with them to verify any moisture problems. As for myself and anyone I know, I do not crawl under a house to check anything. If they choose not to cove this, there is not much that can be done about it. (In my opinion.) They will say that the moisture was not present at the time of installation. Hopefully the store is honorable and if they were negligent on the moisture test they will do right.

Thank you. Very good information. We had no idea about humidity and nobody checked moisture of anything. I sure hope the installer, who the store is going to blame, will make it beautiful again.

Floor Doc 08-25-2011 08:06 PM

I wouldn't correct the crawlspace till the issue is resolved . Take Photos .
They should have checked the space and took readings .
Is the plastic running up the walls at least 4" and sealed ?
You can hire a independent Inspector to do a inspection if you get the run around .

Vlreddick 08-26-2011 10:03 AM

My husband has been under there for two days now sealing the brick with waterproof paint but that's as far as he's gotten. He has also been running a humidifier under there. They are coming on Wednesday. Maybe I can stop him. I told him he should leave it alone so they will be able to find out the problem. MEN! Lol.

Floor Doc 08-26-2011 11:08 AM

We're something else . :whistling2:

Vlreddick 08-26-2011 12:50 PM

Seriously. Your input is invaluable. I think this app will be used a lot. Thank you.

Floor Doc 08-26-2011 03:30 PM

Welcome .
What method are you using to clean the floors ?
They can cup from topical moisture also .
If you get the brush off ask for a mill inspection to start with . There are other recourses after that .:yes:
Installer should have took MC , readings in crawlspace , along with temp and RH . and not started till the issue was fixed . Part of our job as installers to check it ourselves . Not the home owner . they don't install flooring for a living .

woodman58 08-26-2011 06:01 PM

Floor Doc, no offence intended but as a hardwood installer for 29 years now I have never gotten under a house to check for moisture. We check the moisture content at the floor. Not under the house. If the hardwood is within 2% of the subfloor it is acceptable. The only time I might check the crawl space is when installing ceramic or stone. The under stucture is very important for these products. Not as critical for wood floors.

Floor Doc 08-26-2011 08:32 PM

None taken Woodman . I been at it 44 years . Shows how smart i am . lol
I go by NWFA CHAPTER 1
JOBSITE CONDITIONS
Part I – Minimum Jobsite Requirements

6. Basements and crawl spaces must be dry. If power washing is required in the basement,
do so before wood flooring is installed and allow subfloor and basement to dry before
installing wood flooring.

7. Crawl space should be a minimum of 18” (457mm) from ground to underside of joists.

8. Crawl space earth (or thin concrete slab) should be covered 100 percent by a vapor
retarder of black polyethylene (minimum 6 mil) or any recommended puncture-resistant
membrane, such as Class C, meeting ASTM D-1745. See Figure 1-1.

I to get the MC inside of 2% , even for strip.

woodman58 08-26-2011 09:56 PM

Floor Doc, I appologize. I went back and read. You were correct. In the area I live in we do not have crawl spaces. We are required to check the moisture of the area where the floor is to be installed. I use to live in a lake area where I ran into a few crawl spaces. We only checked the moisture of the subfloor. If there was a problem with moisture in the crawl space it would be evedent in the subfloor. Sorry again.

Floor Doc 08-27-2011 01:52 AM

That's very big of you Woodman . Apology accepted .
Hope you're staying busy in this recession .

Marbledust 08-27-2011 02:33 AM

I looked at a laminate wood floor job,it was layed on a concrete slab.the home owner installed it himself,but did not leave a gap at the walls,and the floor cupped bad.

Vlreddick 08-27-2011 11:30 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Regarding the possibility of the floor absorbing moisture topically from mopping, the floor sees very little dirt that a dustmop doesn't take care of. I have damp mopped it maybe half a dozen times since November with a damp microfiber mop and the recommended cleaner by the manufacturer. The cleaner recommended is Bona which I highly recommend. I am putting before and after pics on just for the heck of it. It WAS beautiful.

Floor Doc 08-27-2011 01:14 PM

You are using the best cleaner on the market in my humble opinion . Keep us posted. :eek:


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