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Changeling 04-28-2008 04:10 PM

Congoleum Dura Ceramic and under layment?
First off guys I basically know nothing about floors except I hate cleaning them!

I now have a old vinyl sheet floor that is shot.

I saw this product called Congoleum Dura Ceramic and liked the look of it. I have been doing searches and it seems it is a new product, about 4 years old. A lot of people seem to like it and a lot seem to hate it.
In the professional section of this web site the professionals seem to like it if it is installed correctly, but it was an older tread ended, in an argument between a couple of guys.

1. I would appreciate what the "Current" thinking is about this product, after 4 or more years there should be some good information now available ?

2. My lady friend checked with an installer that runs a franchise store and received a price of $1200.00 for the total installation.
This installer wants to use 1/8 inch luan under lament that the professional guys here don't seem to like at all!

The floor is approximately 23 years old sheet linoleum/vinyl.
Subfloor is 2x10's 16 inches on center, plywood on that (don't know how thick)

I don't mind paying more for the correct products such as glue, underlament, whatever, I just want it done right.

If you think I should not use this product but get real Ceramic tile please recommend some brands.
I live in Frederick Maryland.

Bud Cline 04-28-2008 06:46 PM

Asked and answered in other web forums.:)

poppameth 04-29-2008 05:45 AM

Duraceramic is a decent product but IMO it's over priced for what you get. You are really paying for a warranty that you'll likely never use. I'd look into solid vinyl tile like Earthwerks, Metroflor, etc.

Changeling 04-29-2008 06:10 PM


Originally Posted by Bud Cline (Post 119742)
Asked and answered in other web forums.:)

No, that is not correct. I responded to that in my initial question. it is basically a new product that needs more attention then what has been given it by people who know what they are talking about. Dura Ceramic is less than 4 years old from what I can gather, so how can you say it has been addressed in other web forums?
I'm interested in professional installers opinions recently dealing with the product with a background/recommendations in the product, not a 1 liner about "it's been discussed", that's ridiculous.
Does anyone seriously believe I am going to lay down $1200.00 for some one saying just that?:mad:

Bud Cline 04-29-2008 08:36 PM

You have the identical question with the same user name running on another forum, do you not? If so...what makes you think the answers will be any different here than they will over there?:)

Changeling 04-30-2008 01:38 PM


Originally Posted by Bud Cline (Post 120023)
You have the identical question with the same user name running on another forum, do you not? If so...what makes you think the answers will be any different here than they will over there?:)

Yes I do have the same question asked on another forum. It doesn't hurt to get as many opinions/experiences as one can from different sources.

If I was diagnosed with a terrible disease or any other major thing I was/am doing I would want as much input as I could get, it's just common sense. It is also done by the majority of people with sincere problems or in need of advise. In reading all the posts it appears about half thought it was a great product and the other half thought it was basically junk, which again demonstrates the need for more time for product evaluation.

In my particular case, I read old posts (a couple somewhat new) concerning Congoleum Dura Ceramic since it is only a 3 or 4 year old product. For a product of this nature it takes a few years for enough information to become available for reliable information to be available, not only for the product itself but installation peculiarities relative to the product. I hope this answers your question so others can input there recent or longevity opinions and any other information they care to add.

Bud Cline 04-30-2008 02:02 PM

Basically the SAME PEOPLE reply on most all of the forums, they just use different user-names in some cases. Considering the time it takes us regulars to read and reply and considering what you pay for the information you get, and considering the thanks we get, not many respondents are willing to participate in the repetition of one person making the same post on multiple forums, it's a waste of everyone's time.

DuraCeramic isn't any different than any other product on the market. Some people will take care of it and be happy with it while others will abuse it and lay blame on the product. There is nothing wrong with DuraCeramic if you are looking for an overpriced vinyl floor tile. It is as durable as a vinyl floor tile can be expected to be. Congoleum is a good company with a good reputation trying to sell the cheapest product to you they can at the highest price you are willing to pay.

For the same price (within pennies) you can have real ceramic tile that will last for decades. DuraCeramic will scratch and there are reports of it blistering and delaminating. Edges have been known to curl and I have also personally witnessed maybe two or three bad tiles per every two hundred square foot job I have installed. It is a quick install but only as good as the installation over which few have any control. Any negatives or positives you get on the Internet are useless because you still don't have an honest and accurate accounting of all the circumstances of the property or the installation.:)

I doubt YOU would be satisfied with it over time.:)

Changeling 04-30-2008 03:15 PM

Well Mr. Cline you seem to be following me around the Internet and replying to my question witch is basically the same except at another forum. You keep on saying how this question has been answered on other forums, witch it has not been really. I explained my reasoning on the other forum specifically for YOU, basically it states that you can never have to much information especially for a new product like a ceramic tile hybrid such as Congoleums new product.
I now know what your opinion is, so would you please stop answering my posts and trying to control the thought patterns of everyone else responding to the question. When you try to be this controlling, other people will be Leary of responding because of the way you respond.
I don't mean to be harsh, but you seem to go out of your way to bury Congoleums product without giving "Specific" details as to why.
My lady friend found out today that there is asbestos in the current floor. this means I would have to call in a Hazard Material crew to remove the asbestos/flooring, which is very costly. So whether I like it are not it's sheet vinyl or the Congoleum Dura Ceramic.

Bud Cline 04-30-2008 04:52 PM

This is fun....

Here's what I said on the other forum. Why this isn't "specific" as you claim is beyond me but a lot of things are beyond me.


I have seen it scratch from a customer dragging a wooden bookshelf across the floor. I have seen edges separate/delaminate slightly.

I have pulled new pieces from their box to find they had holes all the way through them in some cases. I have seen tiles where the printed matrix under the clear wear-surface was incomplete and the tiles where splotchy in appearance.

I have heard many problems from people such as yourself on Internet forums. On the other hand some people love the stuff.

It is all in how you use the floor. For some it is a durable product and others it is not.
I was asked...I answered.

If you think little ole me has the ability to skew anyone else's comments you are mistaken. Free world free Internet, everyone is free to voice their opinions no matter what. I am not trying to bury Congoleum's product, you asked I answered, that's why you are here. If no one else is responding it is because like I said: "Identical posts on multiple forums is a waste of every one's time." Just so happens I'm bored today and you're stuck with me.

I can see you are the irritable type and I'll bet I will drive you over the edge pretty quick. You won't be happy with the product of your querry, I can tell. It's just an opinion and opinions are what you are asking for are you not.:)

You may want to check into the asbestos issue also. Most all states allow a homeowner to remove asbestos flooring in their own homes without any problem. It's a one or two time deal and no one cares. Flooring contractors on the other hand don't want to do it routinely but generally men in little white suites aren't normally a requirement with a residential application. Check it out, you'll see I am correct. Nine times out of ten that is just an excuse used by someone that isn't accustom to hard work and doesn't want to remove the old flooring.

I could go on and on but now I'll go to another forum and see what I can get myself into. I'll bet I can find you some more opinions, I'll go get some friends that are also in the business. The only problem with that is going to be you won't know who I control and who I don't with all of my Internet super powers.:)

OH and by the way......Your Welcome.:)

mike costello 04-30-2008 05:29 PM

1/8" subfloor is not industry standard. Check with Congoleum to see what they recommend for a subfloor.

I have installed alot of Duraceramic and durastone and have recently asked my retailers to stop selling it. The adhesive they supply is not the best and the surface of the produact seems to have a propencity to attract dirt.

Out of the 20 or so jobs I have installed I would say over half are not happy with the product.

While you may not like what Bud has to say he is pretty spot on and has loads of experience.

Try looking to Metrofloor or Karndean for a solid vinyl tile

Bud Cline 04-30-2008 05:43 PM

Quote: can never have to much information especially for a new product like a ceramic tile hybrid such as Congoleum's new product.
Wow! I just noticed the above comment you made in an earlier post there Changeling. DuraCeramic is in no way a "ceramic tile hybrid". Where on earth did you get that idea? That's ridiculous my friend.

DuraCeramic is a plastic product and in no way can it be compared to a ceramic tile. Not even in the same family of flooring products.

Doesn't look the same, doesn't feel the same, doesn't install the same, doesn't wear the same, doesn't do anything the same. Comparing DuraCeramic to a "real ceramic tile" is like comparing a Cadillac to a a rubber raft.:)

Changeling 04-30-2008 06:06 PM

Mike thanks for replying. Checking with Congoleum is a good idea, I just left a web site called FCI Message Board where this product was discussed by installers and others. They all basically liked the product but agreed (mostly) that proper instalation was essential, especially the grouting of the product witch was mostly discussed in this thread. The instalation in this thread was in a bathroom where I want to put it in a kitchen.
No one mentioned any problem with the tiles themselves (Mr. B Cline was in this discussion also) however he had nothing to contribute to the discussions of the professionals and never mentioned anything negative. It was so far the best read I've been able to find. It seems that some people used to installing the "real thing" try to treat it that way, and they start having trouble.
If you don't mind my asking what were your customers who were negative, disgruntled about? Was it the attracting dirt or was the adhesive failing in some way?

angus242 04-30-2008 09:00 PM

Changeling, First, it's always nice if you put a name in your post so we know what to call you. Now, it's not really for anyone else to tell you what you want. As has already been mentioned, the DuraCeramic is a plastic based product and is not in the same category as ceramic tile. If you're asking if the DuraCeramic is an OK product, the answer is yes. If you're asking if DuraCeramic is a viable replacement for ceramic tile, the answer is no. As a professional that installs tile for a living, my opinion is that in the long run, ceramic tile or perhaps even a porcelain tile is a better option. A ceramic or porcelain is going to last longer and be more durable. Some people refer to these kinds of tile as "cold" or "uncomfortable". I never really understood that train of thought. So does that mean that plastic can't be cold or uncomfortable? I doubt it. I think when adjectives are used, it's more for the atmosphere or "feeling" a particular flooring portrays instead is a literal translation. I also believe that using ceramic adds to the resale of a home but I recommend you talk to you realtor about the exact details of your home and situation. Good luck with your decision and whatever you decide, make sure you use the proper installer to make sure your new floor is installed correctly! Angus

Changeling 05-01-2008 01:24 PM

Thanks for the reply and the great remarks about real tile and not the cheap crap like Dura Ceramic. Now try reading my post especially why I can't use ceramic tile.
I give up!

angus242 05-01-2008 02:42 PM

It's seems your aggravation of your situation is getting the better of you. Your reply seems a tab bit sarcastic. I'm just trying to help YOU. I'm not getting getting any reimbursement out of this for my time.
Sorry, I did miss the part about asbestos. However, I did see the part about asking for a sub floor for the DuraCeramic. If you have asbestos in your current flooring, any mechanical attachment of a new sub floor could disturb the asbestos and create a hazardous situation. I'm sorry you don't have more desirable choices in your situation. But it's like getting mad at the mechanic when he tells you your car needs a new transmission and it's going to cost $2000. Without asbestos abatement, you have very few choices.
And by the way, I never said DuraCeramic was a crappy product and I wished you luck on your decision WHATEVER it may be.
Now I can give up too.

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